Karen Oldfield: Raise and Develop Those Around You

(Access show transcript) Karen Oldfield stepped in and embraced the role of Interim President and CEO at Nova Scotia Health, as a natural trouble shooter and someone with a love for the underdog.

Summary

Karen and her team are full steam ahead with all the initiatives at Nova Scotia Health today. She speaks with pride about their work around improving patient care and much more. One of the initiatives they’re working on includes the West Bedford Transitional Health facility which helps enhance the chances of patients going back home successfully. Another proud initiative includes the YourHealthNS mobile app, which over half the population in NS have already downloaded enabling them to better navigate the healthcare system.

“We’re on quite a pace, quite a tear, and there’s going to be no rest that’s for sure,” explains Karen when speaking to the dedication of her team and the magnitude of their efforts.

On our newest episode of Healthcare Change Makers, learn more about the initiatives Karen and her team are proud of, the collaboration between NS Health and Life Sciences Nova Scotia, and ways to be supportive of those around you!  

Mentioned in this Episode

• HIROC Staff Café
• HIROC Safety Grants, Learn More
• HIROC East Coast Safety Symposium
• HIROC Prairies and Territories Safety Symposium
• André Picard
• True Reconciliation Book

Transcript    

Imagine you could step inside the minds of Canada's healthcare leaders, glimpse their greatest fears, strongest drivers, and what makes them tick. Welcome to Health Care Change Makers, a podcast where we talk to leaders about the joys and challenges of driving change and working with partners to create the safest healthcare system.

Philip De Souza: Hey, listeners, it's Philip here from HIROC. Thank you for tuning in to Health Care Change Makers, your engagement with our show is just amazing. Thank you for letting us in your day. We know how valuable your time really is. On today's show, we're delighted to be sitting down with Karen Oldfield from Nova Scotia Health. I was fortunate to connect with Karen a number of times over the last year, and in each instance there was this unique positive energy emanating from Karen.

I wondered, where does she get this energy from and how can I get some? We brought her on the show and we talk about all things leadership, innovation, positive partnerships, and generally about all the amazingness happening in Nova Scotia right now. I even got in a question asking Karen to tell me how her family would describe her in one word. It gave me a good chuckle. Okay, let's get to it. Welcome, Karen to the show. How are you today?

Karen OIdfield: Excellent. How are you today?

Philip De Souza: I'm doing very well. For those of you who don't know, I had the pleasure of meeting Karen a couple of times this year, but one of the times I really valued was at her office at the Innovation Hub downtown Halifax. It was a great space. Funny enough, we happened to bump into another HIROC subscriber from our friends from HealthPro were there too, doing some work with your team and that it just felt like an awesome energy.

Karen OIdfield: While there is a lot of energy in the hub, Nova Scotia health innovation Hub, some of it is just because of its location in downtown Halifax, but mostly because of the view, which is we're fortunate to be able to look at Halifax Harbor and the space is cool so people like it. It's creative, always gives off good vibes, good energy. People do like to work there, even though the parking can be tricky and a little bit expensive. They still like to be there and it's usually quite busy every day.

Philip De Souza: No, I had a great time. I loved it and your team is amazing. Let's get right into it, Karen. We know many of our listeners across Canada are familiar with Nova Scotia Health, but let's pretend they're not. What's your elevator pitch for talking about your organization?

Karen OIdfield: Well, Nova Scotia Health is the biggest employer in Nova Scotia. We have 40,000 people between our staff, physicians, volunteers, researchers, patient advocates. As the biggest employer of Nova Scotia, it also has a very large scope. It's not just healthcare. It could be IT, it can be building, it can be industrial engineering, it can be food services, environmental services, sustainability. Anything that you can think of that happens in a city actually happens at Nova Scotia Health. It's like a small city or a city unto itself.

I really like that because it means for people who choose to join the organization, there's a lot of different ways that you can work. What you start with may not be what you finish with. I like organizations that thrive and develop, that are committed to lifelong learning, that are committed to personal and professional development. You get all that, plus you can help a million Nova Scotians with their health and wellness. That's a little snapshot into Nova Scotia Health. I'm pretty passionate about the work and also our people.

Philip De Souza: Oh, I can definitely tell. Your elevator pitch definitely is going to entice some people to go look at the careers page.

Karen OIdfield: There is no question. On that note, we have a fantastic page. It's won awards, actually, international awards. Yeah, it's called More Than Medicine. The "More" is because it's more than medicine and it's got some great pictures. Every single job we have at Nova Scotia Health is noted there, as well as where in the province it could, be as well as little snapshot about the community where the job might be. Let's just say you're somebody who wants to live very close to a beach or the ocean, or you want to be in a city, or you want to be in a thriving arts district, whichever, it's all there. As I say, we've won awards with it, so we're pretty proud of it. It's a nice little website, More than Medicine.

Philip De Souza: More than medicine, perfect. Well, I'll definitely put that in the comments when we share the pod. I love the fact that you talked about the flexibility and adaptability and lifelong learning. Those are things that mean a lot to everyone who's been on this show and basically anyone in healthcare, I'd have to say. You spent many years before this role leading the Halifax Port Authority. What's one lesson you took from your leadership time there that you've taken into your role today?

Karen OIdfield: I think the biggest lesson, and no matter which role you take on, you always learn something. When I reflect back on my time at the Port Authority, one thing I did there and which I brought forward into the Nova Scotia Health Authority is the idea of a fresh page. What I mean by that is sometimes when you're the newbie, i.e, the new CEO or the new VP or the new charge nurse or the new whatever, you're coming into a team that's been in place for a while. Whenever I've done that, I like to sit down with the members of the team and basically say, "Look, I don't care. That was then, this is now."

In other words, your history, it's kind of irrelevant. I'm turning a page, you write your book for me, you write your history for me, you write your fresh story for me. I really like to give people a fresh start with a new leader. It's something that's worked really, really well for me. Even in this current role, I can think of a number of people who, with a fresh start, they just blossomed. Folks, other colleagues may have said, "Oh, that person's really going to need a lot of work. That person's going to need a lot of mentoring" or whatever. Yes, perhaps with a little bit of mentoring, it's amazing what people can do.

Philip De Souza: Absolutely.

Karen OIdfield: This is something I've used. It's a technique that I really like. I love to give people a fresh start and they can write their history for me. We'll write it together.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, I love that. Writing your history together, it's such a positive way of communicating too.

Karen OIdfield: Not going in their file, not looking at every little thing that ever happened over 20 years or five years or six months, I don't care. You write your ticket with me.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, I love that. It tells that you're listening as well. You want hear from that person how they want to own their-

Karen OIdfield: How they want to show up, exactly.

Philip De Souza: That's right. Yeah, I love that. Why was stepping into this role with Nova Scotia Health so intriguing to you, Karen?

Karen OIdfield: Well, there was no challenge I did not like, that's for sure. By profession, I'm a lawyer, so lawyers tend to be troubleshooters by nature. It's in the job but I do like challenges and I love helping the underdog, and I love even being the underdog. When we think about healthcare, when I thought about healthcare, I'm like, oh my God, this is massive. It's the biggest, it's the challenge of our time, not just provincially, but nationally, even globally. I said, "Okay, I'll bring my skills and my experience to Nova Scotia Health for a period of time because the challenge is so big. I might be able to move the needle a little bit. Maybe I can do my share" and because I did not grow up in healthcare and did not have a healthcare background, perhaps the skills I have and the experiences I've had might actually shed a new light on some of the challenges.

That's how I thought about it when I came to it and when I was making my decision, because when I was first asked, I just said, "Are you crazy? Absolutely not." I just never saw myself doing something like this, but then the more I thought about it, the more irresistible it became. Then I said, "Yes, I do want to serve my province in this role for a period of time that I hope I can make a difference."

Philip De Souza: It's fantastic. You're making an impact because I was recently at a conference, Children's Healthcare Canada Conference in St. John's and Jane Philpott brought up your province and her exact quote was, "There's great things happening in Nova Scotia."

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, no, it's true. She's been here a couple of times. She's spoken at the Kinley lectures at Dalhousie University on her health homes, and as well as to our senior leadership team when she was here in the summer addressing the Canadian Federation of the First Minister. All the premiers, she addressed them as well on the nature of health homes and health neighborhoods. We've taken a page out of that book because that's the road that we are going down. That's one thing but we've done a gazillion things in three years and three months. September, October, November, three years, three months and a half.

Now we have recently just the government was re-elected and they have a significant majority. What I think will happen is actually, I went to the swearing in yesterday and I heard the premier's remarks. He was funny because he has an expression which is more faster. He said, "Well, a second mandate." He said, "I guess I should say more faster-er," so it was funny. I guess that's what we'll be doing more faster-er. Yeah, we're on quite a pace, quite a tear, and there's going to be no rest. That's for sure.

Philip De Souza: Well, speaking of that, what's something then that you and your team are working on currently that you're particularly proud of? I'm sure there's lots, but is there one that pops to mind?

Karen OIdfield: I'm going to share two examples. One was this week, we saw on Monday we had a media tour and first patients on Tuesday of a place we call West Bedford Transitional Care Facility. What it is, is a purpose-built standalone facility that will take patients out of the acute care hospital to West Bedford to recuperate for up to 14 days. These would be individuals that need a little bit more physio, a little more occupational therapy, they may need to relearn something, any item that we can help them with to ensure that they will go back home. These are patients that if they stay in an acute care hospital, every day they stay there, it lessens the chance that they're going to go home successfully.
Whereas if they have the right care and the right attention and the right opportunity to recuperate in their private room with their own washroom and beautiful surroundings and great meals, then the chances of them going home, which is where everybody really wants to be, the chances are greatly enhanced. We opened that this week and we're really proud of that. Yeah, it's big. It's big in Nova Scotia for sure.

That's one. Second one, I've been proud since the day we rolled it out, which was in October of '23, so roughly 15 months. That's Your Health NS app. I just looked at the numbers the other day. We have a million people in Nova Scotia, just over a million people, our population, and there has been 527,000 downloads of the app. We're over half the population.

Philip De Souza: It's amazing.

Karen OIdfield: Through that app, they're able to book blood work, they're able to get the results of the blood work, they're able to book not everything but many of the things that they need. They're able to access virtual care through the app. If you have a family doctor, you have two free virtual care visits through the app every year. If you don't have a family doctor, then you have unlimited access to virtual care through that app. It's a one-stop shop, it's got fantastic navigation. We will be releasing the next version very shortly that has all of your scheduling will be available through the app.
For example, any appointments you have, either with your physician or your nurse practitioner or your pharmacy or the acute care system. You're going to an eye clinic or you're going to get blood work, whatever the appointments are will all show in the app and with the press of a button, you can put them into your daily calendar, whether that's Outlook or Google or whatever it is.

Philip De Souza: That's fantastic.

Karen OIdfield: It's big. Yeah, it's pretty big. It's very exciting.

Philip De Souza: To have half the province already on board. I'm a communicator, so I know how hard it's to get people to do something.

Karen OIdfield: What I like about that, to be honest, is that's a huge number of people, massive. Then you have so much opportunity to reach out and to communicate and make sure people know and understand. It's a two-way street, of course, because there's opportunity for feedback and evaluation and all that good stuff too. It's big for us and we're very excited about it.

Philip De Souza: Oh, well the two examples you gave, I don't know how you can top that. Those are really good.

Karen OIdfield: Just watch me.

Philip De Souza: That's fantastic.

Karen OIdfield: Not me, but us.

Philip De Souza: Your team are awesome. You've also recently entered a collaboration with Life Sciences Nova Scotia. Can you tell our listeners more about this particular collaboration and why your organizations are hoping to achieve through this?

Karen OIdfield: Yep. I mentioned, actually you started off by talking about the Health Innovation Hub. At that hub we have a managing director and the managing director is Doris Grant. Doris, she was in the life sciences sector stateside for a while. She came home, she worked at Dalhousie for a little while, she came to Nova Scotia Health, she worked with us, and then she left to become the CEO of Life Sciences Nova Scotia. But it's not good to have too many organizations in the same space without being able to work together super well. What we thought might be a good idea was for Doris to double hat for a year. Continue on as the president of Life Sciences, but also to be the managing director of the Innovation Hub, because a lot of her companies in Life Sciences are also working in our hub to promote either their research or their potential service or their potential technology.

Many of our researchers and entrepreneurs that work with us in the health system actually work with the Life Sciences companies, so there's a natural bridge. We just put them together to make it easier, to be honest, to just make it easier. Now, if they don't work together, that's fine too, but we'll give them the opportunity to collaborate. Some of these collisions that we can enable in creative space, good things happen.

Philip De Souza: Oh, 100%.

Karen OIdfield: That's really all that we're trying to do. I think it's networking in part, it's learning in part, it's causing the good collisions to happen, the partnerships. Really that's what we're hoping to achieve by it. On the other hand, it also helps Life Sciences because we're sharing some of the financial burden, some with us, some with them. Instead of having two fighting for maybe the same dollars, this way we lean together and we have a bigger impact.

Philip De Souza: So much innovation. I love that, it sounds like it's like a seamless strategy as well and experience for partners.

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, we'll make it simple. Why do we need to layer everything and so much red tape? Business people, entrepreneurs, researchers, learners, people just want it to be simple so that way they can focus on what it is that they're trying to create.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, and I love the fact that you talked about these positive collisions. We implemented these things just for our staff. We call them collision chats, where different people from different departments get together and they get to learn about what they're doing and how they can help each other. It's been a huge success, so I'm great to hear how you, and I love that you used that word.

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, that's exactly what we try to do too. So far it's been extremely successful.

Philip De Souza: Oh, it's fantastic. Karen, you also have a podcast called Chats on Change through Nova Scotia Health, where you speak to health leaders in the province and sure elsewhere. What's the biggest thing you've learned through doing the podcast and connecting with like-minded professionals? What would you say is the key to sparking these meaningful conversations?

Karen OIdfield: That's a good question. Well, first of all, for me personally, I love having an opportunity to showcase the innovation and the intellectual prowess of some of our professionals. This could come from any part of our system. These are people who want to make change, positive change for the better. It could be process, it could be tech, it could be any number of things. Usually, I get ideas, people send me, "You should talk to this person, you should talk to this person," or I might be walking in one of our facilities and see somebody that's doing something really cool, so I'll just make a little note.
I've committed coming into 2025 to actually up the ante. I need to do more because there's just so much going on. The more I do, the more people listen and as well send notes saying, "Well, you should talk to this person, Karen, you got to talk to this person." I love hearing the stories. Every person that comes on has a great story. Really, truly, they all have a personal story of course. Why did they get into healthcare? Why did they get into the particular area that they're working in?

Also, they love talking about the innovation that they're creating. I like to, as I say, I really want to showcase the smarts of our people and they care. They're loyal, they're committed, they care. Healthcare workers can go anywhere these days, as you know. It could be another province, it could be another country. I love being able to put the gold star on people and let them shine.

Philip De Souza: I love it. I love how you said you're committed to doing more. I feel like just hearing you today, you do so much. How much more are you going to do?

Karen OIdfield: Well, success breeds success is the best. It energizes you.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, and you thrive on action, I can tell.

Karen OIdfield: You need the energy to get through the bad because the bad can be really bad. It can be a lot of red tape, it could be rooted in bureaucracy over many years. Untangling it and putting in place a new better way can sometimes be really tough sledding. I like the highs and they get me through the lows.

Philip De Souza: No. Speaking of those highs, I'm sure you've mentioned that you have a supportive family that allows you to go and get, like I said, we've been talking about get things done. What does that support look like to you?

Karen OIdfield: Oh my God.

Philip De Souza: What advice would you give to other leaders on being supportive for their loved ones and colleagues?

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, absolutely. I'll just paint a picture for you. I have a cottage, it's close to my home, it's 35 minutes from home, door to door, literally, on a lake. It's almost a little compound. My folks, my parents who live in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia ... Well, the cottage is on the eastern shore, so in a place called Chezzetcook. It's near Porter's Lake for those who look on a map. My folks come down on the weekends.

Philip De Souza: That's nice.

Karen OIdfield: The next cottage to my folks is my sister and her husband, and then myself and my daughter are at our cottage. We have three in a row. I spent a lot of time with that particular sister. I have another one in Toronto, I have two brothers here. This is a family of five children and not a week goes by that we are not in contact with everybody. The kids, there's only seven years from top to bottom. We're quite close and we trust each other's judgment, so very good sounding boards. That's really, really helpful. I have a lot of family members through them who are in the healthcare professions one way or another.

Inevitably, I hear it from the field too, which I just throw that right back to them. I said, "Okay, you're telling me your problem. What's your solution?" It's a very open family so people tell it like it is, and you got to be able to give and take, give and take, give and take. To me, that's support. I can have a very bad day and they will be there 10%. Of course, my own daughter, Laura, she's 29, she'll be 30 at Christmas. That kid looks after her mother, I guarantee you that. She looks after her mother and she is a great support to me, so I'm extremely lucky.

Now in terms of not everybody has that kind of a family dynamic or that closeness in their family, but I tell leaders, if that exists for you, great, but if it doesn't, you have to have, I've always called it a little kitchen cabinet, but you need to have those people around you who care about you. Not about your job, about you, and can help separate the important from the urgent. We all get stressed out over the urgent, where it's the important things that you have to stay focused on, not the issue du jour. I think the kitchen cabinet can help you with that. The kitchen cabinet can also get you up when you're down. When you're really down, you have to have a person that you can call that's going to get you back up out of the doldrums.

In my case, that comes a lot from my family, but I also have three or four people that I golf with on a regular basis who are very close friends and have been for a long time. That's worth its weight in gold. You have to have it as a leader because as the saying goes, "It's lonely at the top." Well, it is lonely at the top. It is lonely at the top, so you got to have it.

Philip De Souza: Oh, that's some great advice. If I were to call your daughter right now, when I asked her to give me one word to describe you, what word would she say?

Karen OIdfield: Crazy.

Philip De Souza: Stop.

Karen OIdfield: She probably would. No, she might say that, she might say that. My mom, she might say My mom. Well, yeah, she'd say crazy. She'd say, "My mom, she's awesome. My mom, she works really hard. My mom, I love her." She could go any of those directions, but she would laugh. The first thing she'd do is laugh. She would laugh because she goes, she would say, "Where do I start? Where to even start? She's a one of a kind, my mom is one of a kind."

Philip De Souza: That's funny. Karen, as a former president of the Canadian chapter of the International Women's Forum, we know you're passionate about women being represented in leadership and board positions. Why do you think leaders should pay attention to women?

Karen OIdfield: Well, let me count the ways. Number one, what? 50% over 50% of the workforce is female. These are individuals who have child care responsibilities. Well, if the sandwich generation may need to care for parents or family members or children. Not in all cases, but certainly the research would show that to be in a disproportionate percentage. One of the things I hear a lot is maybe we need a daycare in the hospital. Some people have tried that, and we have tried that in a small way, but that's not just for the female workforce. That would be for males and all people really.
I think for women, for me anyway, coming from a business background, women have needed a bit more mentoring, a bit more nurturing and caring to find their own voice and to find their own way in what historically has been a man's world. Really the healthcare system is different in some ways but not, because a real hierarchy. Not in all places, I don't want to generalize, but there has been a bit of a hierarchy depending on what role you have in the hospital setting or in the healthcare system and not everybody is equal.

I think for the leader, it's important to find the ways to raise people, to develop people so that they can give voice to what it is that they care about and they're passionate about. I just do different things. I always have two or three mentees on the go. They could be male or female, but historically I have mentored more females. What I like to try to do is to, I always work on public speaking because I think it's so important to be able to give a good solid presentation and to stand up and speak with confidence. There's a lot of little things that women can use some extra mentoring.

I'll just give you an example. This doesn't necessarily apply to healthcare, but it certainly applied to me. In my own career, this is, I don't know my fourth job or my fifth job, but I practice law in a very male dominant firm, a large firm. I was in a political role way back in the 1990s, which politics and the legislature at that time was also quite dominated by men. I was the chief of staff actually to Premier John Hamm, at 1998, 1999 timeframe, plus I was young, pretty young. Those two, and then going to the Port Authority, also a very male dominated sector. I try always to do things to others that I would've liked to have had along the way. That's how I look at it.

Philip De Souza: When you started your career, you are very confident, and I can just tell. The passion you have for something for healthcare, obviously when you were at the legislature, obviously I've only met you a few times, but I can tell each position you've had, you have a great foundation of who you are and where you come from and what you will and will not tolerate. Where did you learn that from? Was it a parent, a friend? Who was it?

Karen OIdfield: I've been asked that question before. Of course, I've been extremely fortunate because as I mentioned, I come from a really close family and we're almost cookie cutters of each other. My kids are almost cookie cutters. Not quite, but it's the values, the values is the foundation. That's parents. Again, my parents, they will turn 85 this year. They've been married for 63 years, 64 years. Their parents were around through our lives for a long time too, so there's been a lot of stable relationships on the family side of the house that not everybody has. It took me a really long time to realize. I thought that was normal, it's not.

That was one thing. I always had wonderful teachers who really helped me and took an interest, up to an including university. Then when I started to work, this was before mentorship was even a thing, but you gravitate to people who can help you, and people did help me, and they still helped me. I still have people that I would go to for advice and for mentorship. But the more you get, the more you have to give, the more you get, you more you have to give.

Philip De Souza: I like that.

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, it's the fact of it. I will never, ever, ever scrimp on giving people around me a little leg up or an advantage when it comes to their own personal or professional development.

Philip De Souza: Maybe you have already, but you should write a book.

Karen OIdfield: I've started three times, I have a ghostwriter.

Philip De Souza: Oh yeah?

Karen OIdfield: We're trying to get some of this stuff out. I'm just trying to figure out what would people read? What would people actually be interested in? I don't know. I could just talk like Chelsea Handler and be funny about it because there's been a lot of funny things that have happened along the way. But I could also go down the leadership road. I could go down just funny stories that have happened, teach the lesson through the story I don't know.

Philip De Souza: That's what you should do, that's the book. Teach the story. Yeah, I'm telling you people would, I would buy it.

Karen OIdfield: Maybe but it's funny, I even have a working title, which is "I Had an Idea ..." because I've had so many ideas that have actually come to fruition that it's really amazing when I look around. I don't mean business ideas for myself personally, I just mean ideas for community, for society in my different jobs. I'm an idea person and I try to come up with the idea for good and then you make it happen.

Philip De Souza: That's a great way to head into our lightning round, idea for good. I love that you mentioned the values that are definitely rooted in how you've been raised. I love that. Now to the lightning round questions, and you mentioned the golf, and I remember there was a question here I'm trying to find. I'm thinking of what I was going to ask you about-

Karen OIdfield: What are your favorite courses?

Philip De Souza: Yeah, we know you're a big golfer, so what are your favorite courses?

Karen OIdfield: Of course, in Nova Scotia, we have some amazing courses in Cape Breton in particular. We have Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs, which have become favorites. They're hard, but the scenery is unbelievable, as well as Highland Links in Cape Breton. There's some really nice courses there. It's a drive, takes five hours to get down there. So it's a weekend for sure. But I've been lucky. I've played lots over the United States and lots across Canada.
I really like courses that have scenery, whether it's on the ocean or whether it's on lakes or the mountains like in Canmore, I walked Pebble Beach. I did not play Pebble Beach. Actually, when I walked it, I'll just maybe finish the answer with this one. My husband, one of his bucket list items was to go to this car show that they have once a year. The conclusion of the car show on the Sunday is they have these beautiful old cars on the 18th hole at Pebble Beach. We did go one year to that. Yeah, it was really fun. We loved it, loved the cars. It was a really, really great experience and a beautiful, beautiful golf course. But no, we did not play it.

Philip De Souza: Still cool, nonetheless.

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, it was really cool.

Philip De Souza: What was your first job ever? Your first job ever?

Karen OIdfield: The first job I ever had, I was 16 years old and close to my home, there was a mall called Woodlawn Mall, and they had a consumers distributing [inaudible 00:34:39]. Basically, mail order catalog store. So far from an Amazon, you can't even remember. Anyway, you'd go in the store, you'd look in the catalog, it's like Lee Valley. You go in, you look in the catalog, you write the number down of the item you want, and then the person, the me would go in the back and pick the thing and bring it out and give it to you. Then that was it.

Philip De Souza: On your way.

Karen OIdfield: That was my first job.

Philip De Souza: If you could have lunch with any living leader, so it could be in business, in health, in government, society, pop culture, whatever, the sky's the limit, who would you want to sit down with and why?

Karen OIdfield: I'm going to give you two I have who, one male, one female. There maybe I wouldn't say two sides of a coin, but different lives, that's for sure. On the female side, I'd love to sit down with Dr. Angela Merkel. Now as the former Chancellor of Germany, she was raised and grew up in Eastern Berlin on the other side of the wall, so to speak. Then of course, after the unification of the city, she became the Chancellor of Germany. I'd love to understand what that meant to her growing up and how it formed her thinking and her leadership.

Of course, she's a scientist and just really, really, really well-read. I don't know, I just really admire her. I think she had a vision and she went for it, so I like that. I have met her. I have met her. Yes, I have met her, but I have not sat down and had lunch with her.

Philip De Souza: Sat down with her.

Karen OIdfield: I can't pretend to know her. But at the same time I met her, also on that trade mission was then Prime Minister Stephen Harper. I got to see them in motion together. I've met him, but I have never sat down with him. These days, of course, he's doing some different things and still has so much, he has views of the world that I would really like to understand. He has history and he has experience, and he has still so much foresight. He's on some very interesting boards too that I think must give him great insight.

Philip De Souza: Definitely.

Karen OIdfield: These are two people. I'd just like to understand what they learned, what they saw, what they think will happen.

Philip De Souza: I'm curious, now because you mentioned it. Who's the non-living person?

Karen OIdfield: Oh, well, that would be, well, I'm a huge Margaret Thatcher fan. Really, the Iron Lady. I was young. I was young as in university when Margaret Thatcher was the prime minister of Britain. Of course, she would've been a heroine only because there were no very few female leaders.

Philip De Souza: That's right.

Karen OIdfield: Very few female people who were in public policy. I studied political science and history. She would be a person I'd be reading about in the newspapers and just following. I always would've loved to have sat down with her, 100%.

Philip De Souza: My last question for you is, what is the best piece of advice you receive from a mentor or anyone really?

Karen OIdfield: A very good piece of advice for a very passionate person like myself, loyal, committed, passionate person. Sometimes it's hard to ask for help, and sometimes it's hard to accept help. My mom is very, very good around that for me. My mom says, "Listen, Karen, whatever you do, be gracious, be gracious."

Philip De Souza: That's nice advice.

Karen OIdfield: That advice is it's important. The older I get, the more important I realize that it is. Be gracious, so I try. I'm not always successful, and she'd be the first person to say that too.

Philip De Souza: Of course. That's good. Well, Karen, I had a fantastic time chatting with you. I got some good laughs in. I took a lot of notes. I loved hearing about who you look to because as someone who's also like you, the learner. I like to hear how other leaders, who they learn from and who they look to. It also then indicates maybe where your mind is going and how you want to keep making that impact and change in Nova Scotia. We look to you, when Catherine and I met with you, we look to you as an awesome leader who's, like we said, making big impact, big change, and making things happen. That's why we wanted you to have you in the show.

Karen OIdfield: Yeah, I appreciate it. I think we are making things happen here. We're very committed and we've been extremely fortunate to be able to have the support of a great minister and also the government generally. They're on a mission to fix healthcare, so we're just trying to do that as fast as we can.

Philip De Souza: Definitely. Our eyes will definitely be on you and your team and seeing all the other things that we can, and then share with others across the country. Hopefully, they can scale your innovations across the country. We'll be looking at you and your team in 2025 for sure.

Thank you for listening. You can hear more episodes of Health Care Change Makers on our website, HIROC.com, and on your favorite podcasting apps. If you like what you hear, please rate us or post a review. Health Care Change Makers is recorded by HIROC's Communications and Marketing Team and produced by Podfly Productions. Follow us on Twitter at @HIROCGroup or email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you.