Paul Young: Undertaking Courageous Leadership

(Access show transcript) Paul Young and his team welcomed the inaugural cohort of medical students at the University of PEI - an enormous milestone for the province. 

Summary

When Paul Young, COO of the University of PEI Faculty of Medicine, sees an uphill battle, he doesn’t turn the other way. His love for healthcare fuels his ability to face a challenge head on, with the outcome rooted in finding solutions collaboratively. 

Paul’s courageous leadership was witnessed through his support in bringing UPEI’s Faculty of Medicine to fruition.

Paul shares key leadership lessons on helping teams feel empowered, how to drive positive partnerships, and navigating intergenerational differences in the workplace. 

Having been named one of Atlantic Canada’s Top 50 CEOS for a fifth consecutive year, we’re not surprised to hear much of Paul’s forward-thinking leadership shine through on this episode. 

Mentioned in this Episode

• University of PEI
• University of PEI Faculty of Medicine
• Memorial University of Newfoundland
• Melanie Fraser
• Dr. Preston Smith
• Toronto Blue Jays

Transcript 

Imagine you could step inside the minds of Canada's healthcare leaders, glimpse their greatest fears, strongest drivers, and what makes them tick. Welcome to Healthcare Changemakers, a podcast where we talk to leaders about the joys and challenges of driving change and working with partners to create the safest health care system.

Philip De Souza: Hey, Paul, thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the show. How are you? How are you doing today?

Paul Young: Oh, I'm doing great, Philip, thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you today and have this conversation. So, I've been looking forward to it for weeks.

Philip: Excellent. So, let's start off with something a bit easier 'cause we chatted before this to get to know you. And so, tell us--you know, you mentioned about a career dream you had when you were younger, Paul. And so, you know, it involved playing pro ball. So, tell listeners more about that.

Paul: Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, we're going back away. So, I think as far as I can remember, you know, the moment I could probably pick up a baseball when I was  two, I was hooked. You really couldn't get me to do anything else. I fell in love with the sport. And even today being in a ball field is a very surreal and calming experience for me. So, I had these huge aspirations, I think like a lot of Canadians do, to play pro ball. And I played competitive ball all my life, and went to some MLB camps and went to Canada games for the province and was going down a path for draft eligibility, and life happens. And I had a couple catastrophic injuries, some broken bones to a wrist and an ankle, pretty important parts for that sport, all within a few weeks of one another. That really made me refocus where I wanted to go. And what happens if this was a year down the road and it impacts my ability to perform?

So, I line that up with also meeting my girlfriend, who became my wife at the time, has all the potential to force someone to refocus their priorities. So, pro ball was not in the cards for me, but I'm a pretty big fan, as a lot of us are right now cheering on the Blue Jays.

Philip: Absolutely. While recording this, the Blue Jays are going to game three with the New York Yankees. So, fingers crossed. And when this comes out, hopefully they'll be World Series champs.

Paul: Absolutely.

Philip: But thanks for telling us that. I really appreciated it. And so, you know, tell us a bit about yourself so listeners know, where do you work and what do you do?

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. So, when pro ball went on ice, that refocusing of all places, I landed in healthcare. Started out as an allied health technologist working in diagnostic imaging. So, X-ray technology, CAT scan, end up specializing in MRI. And I had some really wonderful experiences across the country working as an MRI technologist before coming back home when my wife and I got married almost 20 years ago and jumped into healthcare more in a management capacity. And then that evolved from a frontline manager to managing a number of health centres in primary care, to a local hospital administrator, to a hospital administrator for one of our tertiary hospitals, to eventually into the role that I currently hold, which is I'm the Chief Operating Officer with the new Faculty of Medicine here at the University of Prince Edward Island.

So, I came into this role with a very clear mandate, to support the development and implementation of a medical education program. And that's what I've spent the last--it's hard to imagine three years and change focused on, which has been such an exciting journey.

Philip: Oh, absolutely. And building on that, you know, the University of Prince Edward Island Faculty of Medicine achieved an important milestone event this summer that listeners may not be aware of, the arrival of the first cohort of students. And I'm sure that was a moment to be savoured, for sure, after these three years you mentioned. And so, one would ask, like, did you ever wonder how this would ever come to be? And, you know, now that it's here, how does it make you feel?

Paul: Philip, when I think about and reflect on the last three years, I'd like to say that never had any doubt. But certainly, there were some hills and valleys in that journey, but the destination. This summer, we were so thrilled to welcome the inaugural cohort here at UPEI. Our story evolved from working to develop a very unique to Canada, a joint program that would really be the anchor of the faculty of medicine. And when we started through this journey and we learned so much along the way, which we're doing this in partnership with Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador. And we needed to adjust our trajectory based on the timelines to establish a program that's never been done before in the country, that has unknown accreditation pathways.

And the consideration of not delaying the program, we actually started as a regional campus. So, those learners, they're all from PEI. Small regional campus of Memorial University is hosted here at UPEI. And our team has worked over the last three years to ensure that we had this absolutely incredible building. We have a very generous investment from provincial federal governments as well as from the university to build--it's $100 million building that will house the medical education program as well as so much more. But this was an endeavour to build what is probably one of the most progressive, if not the most progressive, medical education technology-enabled building in the country. And we needed to do that on budget. And when I say on time, we actually had to cut that timeline by about four months so that we would have the building ready in time for welcoming these learners this summer.

So, there were a lot of irons and fires, so to speak, but we were successful to bring the building to fruition, to be able to have our learners start in the building in August. And when I think of it now, I think we're into week seven of their medical education journey. And our collective team, which has grown from one--that was me three years ago--to we're about 120 staff collectively supporting this endeavour in the province, and of course with our partners abroad. It does feel very surreal.

The whole idea of what we've done here and my background in hospital administration, it was always something that seemingly felt impossible for PEI to do based on our size, based on our patient disposition, and just the sheer volume of physicians we have within our health system, that something like this was always felt too daunting to take on. But here we are. We have 20 learners from PEI that, you know, have said from day one, I'm from PEI. I want to learn on PEI, and I hope to practise on PEI. And now we have this environment, the program established, that will allow us to, you know, walk before we run, so to speak, while we really start to invest in developing this joint program that will be offered here at the University of Prince Island. So, really exciting times.

Philip: No, absolutely. And we like to lean into, like, when there's some, you know, uphill battles. And so, you mentioned, you know, like just a few seconds ago--but, you know, it was a--you know, it could have been seen as a daunting endeavour. And sometimes when people see, you know, walls or barriers, they run in the opposite direction. And you obviously wants to run towards it. So, I guess my question to you is why did you feel this pull to get involved? Like what made you be like, you know, this is my why.

Paul: Yeah, you know what? That's a really easy one for me. I love healthcare and everything about. It is environment, especially for someone who loves challenges or loves puzzles. And then who doesn't? That is healthcare in its finest. There's always a problem to be solved. And my experience being in rural healthcare as a hospital administrator for the better part of 10 years, you spend a lot of time trying to beg, borrow, and steal resources to keep the lights on and the emergency department open. And that sometimes feels like a losing battle, though, you know, through my experience in rural health, we did some pretty cool and innovative things that help with that problem. But when I had an opportunity to take on being a hospital administrator for one of our to tertiary sites, my goodness, I was so thrilled.

I missed the aspect of rural healthcare. But the days now of trying to beg a resident to moonlight and keep EMERGE open for a few more hours, those days are long behind me. That doesn't happen in tertiary sites, right? And my first weekend, we had significant instability in anesthesia coverage in ORs. We didn't have enough internists to keep ICU open, and the head nurse from Emerge popped out and said, by the way, I think we might have to close. And Philip, I sat there and said, no, no, this isn't what we do in our larger sites. Like it's all about quality-based care initiatives, not this. Like what is happening right now?

I spent a better part of my first couple of years in the hospital trying to stabilize access to care, but a lot of it was provider dependent. And our recruitment teams in the province were doing absolutely incredible work, but it wasn't enough. So, when the announcement came out that the university was gonna take on this endeavour, for me it was an opportunity to take what I've learned and now play a role more upstream. In order for BI to be sustainable, we need to be able to grow our own, and that has to be part of the solution.

So, for me it felt like a very natural calling. I've been on, you know, the downstream of some of the challenges, really trying to ensure we had the supports in place and human resources available. And in some times, it felt like a losing battle. So, to me, this felt like a different way that I could invest what I've learned and some good energy into a really constructive solution that the province absolutely needed. And we're so thrilled to be here, and believe in every bit that this is a big part of a better tomorrow, not just for the country, but certainly for PEI in terms of our trying to stabilize our healthcare issues.

Philip: I'm happy you brought up your time as an administrator in healthcare 'cause a lot of people who are listening to this podcast, listening to you right now, are leaders from across the country, from, you know, various regions, and they likely heard something that you just said. They're like, ah, I experienced that too. So, you know, maybe we'll dive a bit deeper. What did you learn personally through those experiences of problem solving when you mentioned, you know, does the year have to close? Et cetera. And I guess, like, on the flip side, was your time as an administrator, was it any fun?

Paul: Oh, my goodness, what a great question. Absolutely was. It was a ton of fun. I still say today, and I'm confident I'll say this my entire career, that my time in rural healthcare will be some of the best moments that I've experienced. And part of that, I think, is rooted in the growth that I had very selfishly in that experience. It challenges you, rural healthcare, that is, in ways that it's difficult to appreciate until you're propelled in that environment to do, in some cases, more with less resources, less funding, but in many ways, greater expectations from the community. And I'll give you an example.

On my very first day, I was so excited. I came in and I met my EA and I sent my bags down, and we were just getting through a couple minutes of pleasantries. And she said, okay, you're off to the boardroom. And I said, oh, my goodness. I said, what are we doing in the boardroom? She said, the entire community is in the boardroom. There's a presentation from the ministry this morning on recruitment initiatives in the area there, which I had known. There's a number of physician vacancies, and they're frustrated and communication needs to improve. So, it'd be good for you to go in and be part of that environment. Philip, this is day one, first hour. When we talk about being baptized into rural healthcare and what the expectations of community really means, I experienced it. And it really helped shape who I was. It was this wonderful presentation. The community was absolutely incredible, so dialled in. But I was asked to say a few words, and I did. I introduced myself, and really focused, I'm here to learn and listen. And I was asked to just share a little bit about my experiences, and I did. And then at the end, this little hand in the back of the room raised. And it was this sweet, sweet elderly lady who I believe was--might have been one of the executives with the local auxiliary. And she asked the question, where did you say you're from again? And Philip, my heart sank, because I'm not from PEI. I'm from Moncton. And I purposely understood that this would be seen as someone outside coming in. So, I answered the question and I said, I'm born in Moncton but raised on PEI, moved over when I was young. And I said I married an island girl and I made two of them, two little beautiful Canadian girls. And my parents-in-law are actually retired here in this community.

So, very quickly and desperately trying to identify I have skin in the game and that there's some connections here. So, that answer seemed to satisfy the crowd. A lot of inward discussions happened and we wrapped up the meeting. And as I was making some introductions, as folks were leaving just to reintroduce myself, the same lady came up to me and she said, I just want to let you know, we talked about it and we're gonna give you three months. And for me, when we talk about what that means and how invested communities are in healthcare, particularly in rural, small rural towns, as in the ones that I was the administrator of their local hospitals, it was palpable to say the least, but I understood. I understood what this meant and any preconceived notions I had about what community engagement looks like and how invested these groups are went out the window. And I really need to take a step back.

So, for me, that was a really big one that really helped set how I would approach challenges and issues, engagement in that role. But resilience, I think, was one of the biggest pieces that really helped develop some resilience was there, there were a lot of hard times, a lot of bed closures, a lot of times the ER are closed, late night meetings trying to problem solve. And the lessons I took from that is, you know, we can sit back and, again, watch this narrative play out across the country, or we can really put our heads together and say, not today. What else can we do? And there was this incredible group of nurses and physicians and teams that came together and said, what are the options? And from that led some really incredible applications of digital health that helped to prevent one of our hospitals from closing, which would have been his future.

And it's not only offered some stability in a really difficult time, but it's helped offer stability to other rural hospitals and long-term care centres across the country. And we reinvited them to speak at a Asian health care summit in Vietnam to tell their story 'cause they had built 450 rural hospitals on the brink of closure. And they heard about this Canadian innovation. And they wanted to better understand what that looked like. But I can tell you the success from a simple application that model, my teams came back to us and said, what else can we do? It was so infectious. For the first time, they thought that they were in the driving seat to not just bear witness to services being reduced or impacted, but actually contribute proactively and apply this level of determination and resilience that, no, even though we're small, we can do really special things. So, those are lessons that I've certainly carried with me in the other roles that I've taken on.

Philip: No, it's amazing. And I love this story of, you know, your first dance. There was definitely some--definitely had a high drama what you got thrust into. But I love that you mentioned and you were vulnerable about it, saying that, you know, you kind of checked yourself because you thought, oh, you got--started your first day. You probably probably had a--in your head, you probably had like, oh, I'm gonna do this. I got to say hi to this and shake this person's hand and I'm going to meet these people. And then, you know, you heard from community member. You're like, oh, okay, I need to check myself and make sure I'm here for the community and make sure that they know that, you know, you're there to support them. So, I love that you mentioned that. And I also love the fact that you empowered your team and you mentioned that story about, you know, like when your team came to you with the innovations and say, what else can we do? And you, you know--so I guess just kind of just before I go to the next question on that, like, you know, the whole point is, like I said, a lot of leaders are listening. Is there some advice you can give or a tip that helped you or something you learned about ensuring that your people feel empowered, and of course, just come to you and speak up where they--to challenge or to bring new ideas or--you know, in that moment, obviously they came to you. And so, they felt comfortable to come to you and bring things forward. So, do you have any tips for leaders listening on like, what, what's worked for you when it comes to helping your teams feel that motivation, feel empowered, feel connected?

Paul: I think, you know, if I were to boil it down to maybe one message from my experience, it's been to be present. And then what I mean by that is more than just visibility. But when you're in meetings and when you're speaking with folks, to really be connected into what you're talking about, I think it's important. I think sometimes, these are--maybe it's not fair to say in rural healthcare, to show emotion, but I think it's really important that folks feel your passion. Passion for demanding, passion for the work, but passion for the people that you're working with.

And I think when few people feel that and then they see those actions transcend, that really what you're here, you're here about the patients, certainly. But, you know, in order to deliver really good care, it's about the people who provide that care. And as a hospital administrator, I'm not that person, nor is my senior leadership team. But they're responsible for people that are responsible for people that are responsible for the people that are taking care of, you know, someone's mom or dad or brother or sister or child. So, it's really important to ensure that we're creating supports and structures around that.

And in order to do that, you really need to be connected into what their challenges are. They need to be heard, but you need to be present. You need to be engaged in those conversations consistently and staff need to see it. Even that means a lot. Quite often, you're not able to fix or even maybe tangibly move the marker on an issue that they're dealing with, but you're creating space for them to be heard. You're sharing, you know, the concerns in regards to what needs to be addressed. And you're constantly trying to create discussions and explore options together. This isn't someone coming in and saying, here's what I think you're gonna do. Tell me what do you need? And really being, I think of it as a very human centric leadership style, really making it about the people that are taking care of the people that are taking care of patients. And I think that's been something that's been helpful to me and I'm always very conscious of that, that I'm doing right by those around me first and foremost, and doing my very best to ensure aligns with mandates, but always thinking these are people first, employees second. And that tends to go a long way from my experience.

Philip: Absolutely. And I love that you need to do that transparency aspect as well of, you know, you know you can't pick something just a second, you're still acknowledging it. You're still listening. You're still seeking out solutions. So, I love that you mentioned that. And, and I'm happy you mentioned resiliency 'cause you played a big role in, you know, health's care system resilience during the pandemic and, you know, Hurricane Fiona. You know, obviously then you decided you wanted to help build this medical school. So, it's very clear to us, and me anyways, that you see problems and you're not scared to rush toward them. So, I guess kind of, you know, like what gives you that motivation to jump into difficult things and, you know, want to make them better, you know, in general?

Paul: Well, I appreciate your kind words. And I think you're being too kind when you say motivation to jump into. I sometimes boil it down to at minimum, haven't run away from the challenge. And I think as leaders, that's something that, you know, we are thrusted into and you accept the responsibility whether it's a pandemic or it's a, you know, groundbreaking hurricane that you're dealing with or whatever micro macro issue that's coming in front of your door. It all boils down to the support and the leadership that is needed to provide. And, you know, those experiences were tough. They were tough in so many different ways for everybody involved. And the motivation here, when I think of COVID-19 as a, you know, local hospital administrator, when I talk about really being present, jumping in to me is leading by example.

And I think that is if leaders do nothing else, it's really being the example for what we're trying to do. And if you're asking staff to feed a patient and the concerns that folks have 'cause they may or may not have COVID as you're waiting for results, being prepared to don PPE and be in there and take a shift and help feed some patients, it's pretty hard to ask staff to give what they needed to give and not be prepared to be there with them or an emerge and having those conversations with COVID patients and allowing staff to see that. I think there's some hypocrisy when we don't maybe capitalize on the opportunities to leave from the front.

So, I would say it's not as much a propensity to jump into difficult things. I think it is, in some cases, just a poll that I can't run from them. And as much as may have preferred to be anywhere else during COVID-19 or Fiona, or maybe even the quasi silent epidemic of the health human resource epidemic that we're currently dealing with, these are things that we sign up for that we need to support. And I think if we really want to live by our values and why we're here, and we're here for the people that are taking care of our patients, this is the very least that we can do.

When I equate this to the medical school assignment, it was a very natural calling to say it would and has and was difficult, but it was another area that I felt that I could contribute to 'cause we need this in this province. This is absolutely something that we need. So, maybe a little bit sucker for punishment, Philip. Maybe a little bit of, you know, love. Love the chaos. That is a really big problem. But ultimately, it really boils down to wanting to do right by others and serve the community and serve the public. And I find that can get fulfilled and I can fufil that mandate in these roles. So, nothing outlandish that I seek and hunt out these types of opportunities, other than if I really believe in the benefit that they will bring. For me, it's no question in my mind. Sign me up. I'm all in.

Philip: Yeah. No, amazing. And kind of at the start, you talked about, you know, partnerships. And just now, you mentioned too, like, how critical they are to you, you know, as in your journey. And for us at HIROC, partnerships help us drive impact when it comes to, you know, safety and risk and innovation in the system. And so, you know, can you share how you're working, for example, with health PI and our good friend, you know, Melanie, for example, or others in the system, you know, to make a positive impact? You know, like on collaboration. And maybe just, you know, if you can think of one or two or, you know, things that our listeners can do today to drive these positive relationships that, of course, aim to benefit all in the partnership.

Paul: Yeah. So, our journey, the way that the announcement of the medical school was launched in the province, in some cases, it took a few key stakeholder groups off guard. And one of them might have been the broader health authority in regards to what this looks like. 'Cause I think when we think of medical education, its success really lives or dies on our ability to integrate with the health system. Hard stop. And that means they're an absolute critical stakeholder and stakeholders, whether that's the health authority, if it's our physician community, the medical society. These are all really key integral groups. And what's very common in every medical education journey in this country, over 200 years, all 20 medical schools have lived through this. There are very reasonable fears and concerns over how and what impact this will have on care within the province, and will it break an already very fragile health care system?

So, those were challenges that we needed to overcome. And when we saw a transition of leadership in the province, that was a really great opportunity for us. Because our medical education journey, we were two years into the development phase. And it really helped allow us to reframe some great conversations with the health authority in regards to, what does this collaboration look like? What does the partnership look like?

So, at the same time that our new health authority CEO, Mel Fraser, came on board, around the same time, we were able to introduce to the province our new dean of medicine, Dr. Preston Smith, who is a heavyweight in medical education in this country and system administration. So, with these two new system leaders coming on board, we had some executive leadership, and they were able to create some tables that allowed us to build upon, how are we going to approach this work together? So, we really had to take a step back to go forward and establish, you know, what does the governance look like? How do we mobilize these discussions? How do we want to develop a shared understanding? Are we aligned with our purpose?

So, these were some pieces of work we did early days. But where we were in the relationship, we really needed to reframe them. And we were able to land in a really great place. So, when I think of, you know, what's one thing that can be done today to drive those positive relationships, I think it's--and I do this myself constantly, is to ensure that I'm prioritizing the value of the relationship. I mean, PEI. particularly, it's really small. I mean, we're so hyperconnected into this province. But I really do believe this, you know, would apply right across the country that we need to value these relationships. There are no relationships. There's no bridges that can be burnt along the way. We really need to approach relationships and partnerships and collaborations with a very open mind in regards to--there are many competing agendas, but there are always shared whys and purposes. And I think that takes strategy, it takes some emotional intelligence, and it takes some creative negotiation to ensure that we're navigating those conversations and we're aligning ourselves. Even when there are polarized differences, we can still find common ground within our environment.

So, ensuring, though, that we don't discount the value of the partnership or the relationship and build a foundation, which will give us a foundation of trust. It really will give us our anchoring point so that we can have these constructive discussions that, you know, we don't certainly have to agree, and no organizational partnership does. But we certainly need to agree around the values of how we'll approach the conversations. And I think that is something that we continue to benefit from, taking that approach, whether it's our health authority or other strategic partnerships with the faculty of medicine and where our future takes us. And I think we create a lot of risk to the partnership and to collaboration when we do not put prioritization on the value of that relationship. So, I think that's--I think there's lots of things we can do to drive that positivity, but I think really ensuring we value the relationship is a really core component there.

Philip: Oh, absolutely. I love that you grounded all of that on the foundation of trust. I think trust is critical when you have partners. And of course, you've your own people as well. And so, that kind of leads me to, like, that, you know, kind of that value of trust. And then I think about, you know, you as a leader, and I think, oh, you know, you mentioned--I love how you mentioned that, you know, there was some reframing and alignment. And it sounded to me that, you know, you had great support from Melanie. I think you mentioned the dean. And so, you know, to me, the three of you together sounded like, you know--and the people, of course, around you sounded like you kind of undertook some courageous, endearing leadership. So, what does courageous, endearing leadership, you know, in your eyes, look like for you?

Paul: Well, I mean, three years ago, for me, it's involved wanting to contribute in a way that you're hopeful that you have the skills and competencies to do so, but terrified that you're entering an industry that you know nothing about, but you really believe in the possibility what it could become. And that was my truth three years ago when I left the health system to jump into academia in a world that was so foreign and unknown to me. And even medical education, how do I do this? And to be the person that was tasked with building out the teams and a strategic HR plan and navigating even the language. You know, so there was a lot of fake it before you make it. But I was reminded by some close colleagues around, you know, you need to have courage when I'm having my own doubts about, you know, I don't know anything about this, what am I doing? But I really believed in what this can and could be and will be. And I'm so thankful to have taken the courage to be able to make that step, and I try and share that.

So, when I think about that and when I talk to, you know, team leads here and other folks within circles, I think one of the hardest parts in today, with all the challenges, whether it's health care or outside, is leading and holding your values close to heart and not sacrificing what you truly believe in to advance a relationship, to advance an initiative, or at the cost of something or somebody else. And I think there's very effective ways to do that. But I think that takes courage, you know, when you're faced with a compromising situation and to hold your values close to heart as your beacon as you move forward.

When I think of courageous and daring leadership, I think that's really about, you know, enabling and creating a safe space for all team members to be heard and all participants in this journey. There's too many times than not where we have circumstances where not everyone feels safe to share their ideas, thoughts, concerns, issues. And I think a big part of courageous leadership is creating a space where you can hear those perspectives, particularly when you're seeking out varying opinions and supporting a constructive debate. I think that takes courage to be able to do that. Embracing failure, I think, is huge, so much, that I've learned a ton myself in leading projects and initiatives that didn't quite go the way that they needed to go. And push against a culture sometimes that, you know, is to say, “Oh, don't tell someone that that didn't work out too good. That will reflect negatively on you, versus, you know, how much apprehension that can create from saying, well, maybe I won't risk taking this initiative forward if it might fail or not work.”

So, I think courageous leadership is trying to communicate and really push our teams to be able to explore the boundaries of what's possible, recognizing that failure is a consideration, and that there's a lot to be learned through that. And how do we balance between pushing the boundaries and also accepting that sometimes it's not going to work it? And then we need to pivot and adjust. And that's not only okay, but that's really how we're gonna advance our systems in all different areas.

And Philip, I think it all boils down to leaders being accountable. Being accountable for their actions, being accountable for how they show up, and being accountable for the teams that they're responsible to lead and exemplify the behaviour and model those expectations. I think that, to me, when I think of daring leadership today, that's what stands out to me.

Philip: Oh, very cool. Very inspiring. That's for sure. Just bunch everything you said, I'm taking lots of notes. And so, you know, our listeners, they can't see you, but while you're a young leader. And so, congratulations on being recognized as such. Great work. And so, in today's workplaces, there's lots of talk about intergenerational differences. I know it's a hot topic in most workplaces, not just in healthcare. Quite across the spectrum. So, of course, it's terrible to generalize. But a lot of young people today are questioning the status quo and, you know, and want to know, you know, why are we doing it this way, for example?

And so, how can we deal with this tension in our, you know--obviously, here we're talking about healthcare and healthcare environments, but it could be in general anywhere. And it kind of makes sure that young people stay in and stay committed. And I know, I'll add a caveat too. Like, you know, it's not, you know, I'm seeing young right now, but it could be any generation that may be posing questions. And that's kind of good that I'm asking this question right after you talked about being accountable. So, you know, what would you have to say about that for anyone listening about intergenerational differences?

Paul: Yeah, and I think you hit it right on the head in your closing comment to that part where certainly, the younger generation coming into the workforce and questioning, you know, what are we doing here? But we have really all generations across the healthcare spectrum, and others, that are looking for change, and they're struggling to connect to the purpose of, how do we continue to do the same thing and expect a different result?

So, I think we're in indeed a kind of a unique moment where we have upwards to five generations sharing a workplace. And that brings, you know, a richness of experience and values and expectations. But to your point, it also creates real friction. And we're seeing those tensions around variation in work ethic, communication styles, tech adoption, even attitudes towards feedback and authority. And I think there's a key there to reframe that generational diversity as not as much a problem to manage, but really as an asset to leverage.

And so, we talk about this a lot and I've talked about it a lot in my, my previous roles. And you know, we look at things like cross generational mentorships bidirectionally, both ways. You know, we have more experience, employees teaching junior employees, and vice versa. For example, experience versus tech adoption and what does that look like. We talk a lot around communication styles and what those norms look like across all generations. But I think the big one going to your comment around, you know, why am I here? That's how we articulate that consideration around a shared purpose, not just for the organization, but across generations through the organization.

So, you know, what I mean by that is, you know, we're focusing on the values and the goals and mandates that also transcend age. So, 100%, we talk a lot about connecting our team members to a greater purpose and a mandate, and that always needs to be in the crosshairs. But at the end of the day, you know, I think any one of us, we want to wake up in the morning and we want to be excited over what we're doing and where we're going in the workplace. And when we're there, we want to feel that our work matters and that we're challenged and feel supported. And when we go home, you know, we like to feel that, you know, we've made a difference, and you have that feeling of fulfillment.

So, that's universal, right? That transcends everyone. So, a big part of that, I think, aligns with the work that we do around establishing the culture within the workplace. And I think with a strong culture, it certainly helps people connect to, you know, why they're here, both at the micro level, what's in it for them and how they're feeling, but also then how we speak to that greater purpose, the difference that they're making as part of a team and as an organization.

So, it's a very consistent and constant dialogue for us. But it is something that, I think, really transcends its way across all generations. Whether we're talking about someone that just came in, graduated from nursing school, or someone that's been in the industry, healthcare, for 30 plus years. Those are something that everyone is looking for. And we need to be mindful that, you know, one size doesn't fit all. But ensuring that we're thinking about how our strategies approach and transcend all generations is, I think, a really important part of that equation.

Philip: No, I love that you mentioned, you know, when you think about an organization, you know, their shared purpose, their values, et cetera, and how that trends, you're right, it trends. When you said it, I was like, “Oh yeah, he's right.” The values are gonna--and those are usually shared values. So, they're not just for one generation. They transcend all demographics. And I think that's a really great way of you grounding it. And I love how you added that towards the end there, how, you know, like when you wake up in the morning, you want to feel energized, and you want to be ready to make a difference. And we see that. For example, right now, I hear that through your voice and I know, you know, our good friend, you know, Melanie, and, you know, I know that she does that with her team, you know, across the province. And so, I think that's a fitting way to end our formal tough questions for you, Paul. That was great.

Paul: Awesome.

Philip: And we're going to end it to enter our lightning round. So, here I'm just gonna ask you some questions. It could be one-word answers or, you know, however long you feel. And let's see what you have to say about that. I guess my first question is, is there a book you recommend to everyone? It could be any kind of book. But is there a specific book that you always recommend?

Paul: You know, I think I'm gonna make an assumption here that most of your listeners have read this book. I've read it a few times. I still keep going back to it. I'm a big Simon Sinek fan, proponent to purpose-driven leadership and helping people understand their why. I think we all need to know what we're doing and why we're here, whether that's for learners or we're here for the patients or whatever we're trying to achieve. So, you know, "Start with Why" by Simon Sinek. You know, how great leaders inspire everyone to take action, I think it's such a tremendous book. You know, really understanding that power, purpose, and, you know, why some leaders in organizations are more inspiring than others. Myself  I've read it a few times, and I seem to keep coming back to it to be like, what was that comment? And helping to really understand how I try and bring that understanding into the work that I do. So, I love that one. There's a number of books that stand out to me, but that's certainly one that I think would be valuable in your listeners to have on their bookshelf.

Philip: No, that's a good one. And keeping on that topic of leadership lessons, you know, how do you personally gain, you know, those leadership lessons? Is it listening to other podcasts? Is it from a mentor, or mentors? Is it past experiences? You know, thinking of all these things, like, you know, when you're in a crisis, like, how do you react? Like, so where do you gain those kinds of leadership lessons?

Paul: Yeah, all the above for sure. You know, exponential learning, you know, is a big part of that. I've learned myself a ton. I've been surrounded by some incredible leaders, and I've seen other examples of maybe not so great leadership that I've pulled as much or sometimes more from in terms of, hey, what would I have done differently? Self-reflection for myself is a big one. I've practised that from the time that I was young and constantly. And even on the good days to be like, you know, was that the right step? Was that the right sequence? Could I have said that differently? Was I effective in conveying my message? You know, could I have, you know, fewer words and maybe a little bit more--or maybe too many words, and, you know, how to make those adjustments?

So, I think all the above, you know, is a part of how we learn and grow. And constantly listening to those around. Pull these little nuggets almost every day, whether it's a podcast on the way into work or if it's a book or a colleague. I was like, “Oh, that was brilliant the way you said that.” So, you know, I think just allowing ourselves to be open and absorb the good, the bad, and the ugly in every which form that it exists, I think you can pull so much from that every day, that we're doing what we're doing. So, yeah. So, I think a little bit of everything, Philip.

Philip: Yeah, and I guess only because you mentioned all the above is, I guess, like, when I think about the word mentor, I know I'm fortunate to have many mentors in my life. And so, has there been one in your life that's left you with, like, a saying or an action that's really stuck with you? And it could be a parent too, you know, anyone in your family. Something that stayed with you for, you know, a very long time. And you think about--so when you kind of, like, how you said, like, oh, did I use too many words or did I use too less words? Is there something that's stuck with you since, like, for a long time that you still use today that a mentor or a, you know, family member told you on how to bring your best self?

Paul: Yeah, there's certainly been a lot. And when I think through that, you know, one that stands out for me, especially as a young manager. When I started my career as an MRI technologist, at that time, almost 20 years ago, tons of work all over the country. And I turned to my manager at the IWK and I said, you know, what do you think? Should I go to Calgary? Should I go to BC? Certainly want to leave PEI for a little bit and gain some experience. And he said, well, what's the goal? And he says, is the goal to get a full-time job? Go anywhere and have some fun and have an adventure. But if you really want to go and learn, really learn, I said go to CHEO. And I turned down full time opportunities to take a part-time job on the weekends at CHEO to learn from John the named Rick Carew who was--and I don't think Rick would ever appreciate how much influence he's had on my career.

But what I learned from him very early on and, again, as a frontline technologist, but as our supervisor. And Rick went on to manage and direct and do some really incredible things. He had a very person centric approach to leadership and he treated his team from the first moment I was in the province, having me over at his house with his family, to say, welcome to Ottawa. You don't know anyone here. Come have a barbecue and meet my family and we're going to be working together. To efforts where he put so much time and attention into building a schedule that worked for everyone. And I remember coming to him. And, you know, I pretty much worked 24/7. And my girlfriend, I think fiancé at the time, had said, hey, great news. I got a few days off. What do you think about me coming up to visit? And I was like, oh, that's great. And I said, oh my goodness. I said, Rick just put up the schedule. And, you know, I don't have the heart to ask, but, you know, I hadn't seen my fiancé for a bit.

So, I went to Rick and I said, listen, no harm, no foul if it's not possible. And I know he just spent weeks on this schedule. He just put it out. What do you think? Is there at all any possibility to pick up a shift? And he did something that I would say doesn't happen very often, Philip. He didn't even--he said, no problem. Leave that with me. Let me see what I can do. And even if he came back and said, you know what, I took a look. Or if he didn't take a look, I felt in that moment that I mattered. And he was able, he did some magic and was able to free up a few days. And I had that time with my fiance. But I took from that as well how important it is to treat people as if you would want to be treated and offer that grace and that willingness in what you do.

So, I was blessed with that experience that I took into the moment that I was responsible professionally speaking for other staff. And as I grew, to always put the people side first. That you are a spouse or a partner or have a family, and there are other parts that impact your life. And this is a part of it and this is not the biggest part necessarily. So, to be mindful of that, and that is certainly very well. So, Rick, I'm not sure if you're listening out there or not, but, you know, I certainly owe you a lot for your guidance and wisdom. And many of those lessons I've carried with me that influence my style today.

Philip: Oh, I'm so happy you mentioned Rick. And yes, that is a great story. Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that. So, you got me off track now because that's such a good story. So, if we told you, Paul, that you could start your own podcast tomorrow and it doesn't have to be healthcare related. It could be anything in the world. What would you want to talk about and who would you want as your first guest?

Paul: Oh, my goodness. This has never been so easy, Philip, to say. And there's so many different ways I could go with this. Today, I absolutely have to say that it would be a Blue Jays podcast and that I would be beg, borrow, and steal to have Trey Yesavage sit down in front of me and say, listen, you just pitched an incredible game too. You know, what's going through your head? How did you do that? The poise that he has at such a young age, I'm in awe and such a huge fan. And I think, like, the rest of the country, we talked about earlier, cheering on I think some really special postseason magic is gonna happen here. So, I think that's exactly where I'd go with that today.

Philip: No, absolutely. That's a good one. I would listen. And if you don't get him, then we'll get him. We will find a way to run health care. Is there a company? I guess I thought I'd think about it. Could be even a sports team. Is there a company, a sports team, whose culture you really look up to? And it doesn't have to be in healthcare.

Paul: Like to think I'm a student of leadership and culture and try and read as much as I can and listen. And, you know, look at case studies when they come my way. And one that stood out to me, and I'm trying to think of a Canadian example here. Maybe like a Shopify, you know, Canadian tech company e-commerce and what they've been able to do and how they built such a strong values-driven culture. They have this really cool remote first leadership that values flexibility and autonomy for their staff. They're super purpose and mission-focused, which, as I mentioned, you know, is something that I really connect to.

They have this co-ownership mentality as well where they really encourage all employees to act like owners and they have that strong connection to the organization, and they do a ton of investment in their people and have this really cool adaptive type culture where they're constantly saying, you know what, do we need these meetings? Can we simplify our communication style? Like how do we do better? And I just love that approach to continuing to invest in terms of what works well for staff. You know, those micro reflections on how do we continue to strengthen our culture. And the way they balance purpose, autonomy, and innovation, I think, makes them kind of stand out for me.

Philip: No, absolutely. And I love that you went to a non-healthcare one. That's because sometimes, you know, we can learn from cross sectors, and I think that's important. And so, my last question for you before we let you go is, you know, thinking about your--this is maybe an oddball question. Thinking about your personal quirks today. Who do you feel shaped those one-of-a-kind quirks that makes, you know, Paul Young Paul? You know, who can you pinpoint from your childhood that made that indelible mark on you?

Paul: Oh, great question. I think my wife and kids would love the fact that you referenced that I have lots of personal quirks. It would certainly align with that. You know, I think in this case, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. So, you know, I'll put a shout out to my brother and sister. I'm a middle child. I think that itself maybe gives me a bit of a competitive advantage having, you know, developed the skills that sometimes middle children do and how that applies in the workforce. So, I take no recognition that there's anything there that I own. They forged that.

So, that's, I think, just my reality. But, you know, I say apple doesn't fall far from the tree. My dad was a pretty impressive individual, still is. He's passed a few years ago. But he's that individual that when he saw a problem or a need, he would self-teach. So, when my mom and dad, you know, got married, they wanted to build their first house and neither one of them knew how to do that. My dad went and got a library card and read lots of books on how to build a foundation and build a home, and they built their first home. And he took that approach and he modeled that for us, that there is nothing here that can't be solved. And there's no limitation, just because you don't know how to do it, doesn't mean that you can't do it. So, you need to be proactive and take steps from where you are to where you want to go. And that was a measurement that we took with us in terms of our careers, our aspirations.

And it's an example that all of us hold--my family holds close 'cause he modeled that on a very consistent basis. And no problem was something that couldn't be tackled. And we saw that time and time again with his own quirks and what he did to position himself to overcome any challenge. Or even something as simple as learn to fly a plane, you know, just a hobby that he picked up. And doesn't have to be physically in a plane, but he built a little flight simulator for himself and taught himself how to fly. And it became a really fun thing for him to do, but kind of jumping on bookends on the approach that he took and the message that he left us directly and indirectly. But we saw it. If you want something, go after it. And there is no barrier that you can't equip yourself with an education and knowledge that you can apply to solve that problem. So ,I'm thankful for that example and I hold that with me, I think, in almost every conversation that I have every day, Philip?

Philip: Oh, that's so nice. And your dad is such a special human being. I'm happy we got to close with that and with what he did and his can-do spirit. That's for sure. I love hearing that.

Paul: I appreciate that. Thank you.

Philip: Well, Paul, that's the end of our episode. Thank you so much for spending time with us. I took lots of notes down. I know our listeners will take a lot out of it too. And now that I think about it, I know you might--obviously the first cold hard start of the summer. And so, maybe I'm gonna pencil my agenda to come back to you once the cohort graduates and we can hear from some of the students and from you and how things have continued and are flourishing in the province.

Paul: Absolutely. Would love to do that. And, again, thank you to you, Philip, and HIROC and the organization for welcoming me into this conversation. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed having the opportunity to share some of these insights with you in my experience. And I'm thankful that organizations like yourselves, you know, create these really great opportunities to share that with your listeners. So, thank you very much for taking that on and for having me today.

Thank you for listening. You can hear more episodes of Healthcare Changemakers on our website hiroc.com, and on your favourite podcasting apps. If you like what you hear, please rate us or post a review. Healthcare Changemakers is recorded by HIROC's communications and marketing team and produced by Podfly Productions. Follow us on Twitter at @HIROC Group or email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you.