Dr. Steven Harrison: Redefining Leadership in Seniors’ Care

(Access show transcript) Steven Harrison, CEO of Tri-County Mennonite Homes and Board Chair of AdvantAge Ontario, discusses the importance of embracing global perspectives in Canada, the challenges and opportunities facing his organization, and the value of selfless and vulnerable leadership.

Summary

For this episode of Healthcare Change Makers, we sat down and had a captivating conversation with Dr. Steven Harrison, the CEO of Tri-County Mennonite Homes. Steven has a wealth of experience as a seasoned leader in long-term care. Throughout the episode, you’ll hear all about his insights from working internationally and how this experience has shaped his views about Canada, embracing global perspectives and solutions for challenges at home. We also learned more about Steven’s career journey, beginning as a PSW and his decision to pursue a career in leadership focusing on system design and change, rather than becoming a clinician.

Furthermore, Steven also discusses overcoming the most pressing issues in seniors’ care, such as the damage caused by the pandemic, and the coordinated efforts needed to recover and adapt. We also talk about a much-needed shift from large-scale institutional models to more personalized, community-based care, emphasizing the importance of adapting to modern societal needs.

When speaking about his leadership values, Steven believes in the importance of hard work, resilience, giving back to his community and learning from failure. As a healthcare leader, Steven says it’s critical to be vulnerable and selfless, especially when it comes to inspiring his staff and providing a safe space for them to express their concerns. Steven also talks about how impactful it is for his staff to create opportunities for them to be their best selves by focusing on their strengths and pushing them out of their comfort zones.

Mentioned in this Episode

• Tri-County Mennonite Homes
• AdvantAge Ontario
• Ontario Hospital Association (OHA)
• Infection Prevention and Control Canada (IPAC)

Transcript 

Imagine you could step inside the minds of Canada's healthcare leaders, glimpse their greatest fears, strongest drivers, and what makes them tick. Welcome to Healthcare Change Makers, a podcast where we talk to leaders about the joys and challenges of driving change and working with partners to create the safest healthcare system.

Philip De Souza: Hey Marc, how's it going today?

Marc Aiello: It's going great, Philip. How are you?

Philip De Souza: I'm great. So tell listeners who we have on the show today.

Marc Aiello: That's right. So, for this episode, we have Dr. Steven Harrison, CEO of Tri-County Mennonite Homes in New Hamburg and Stratford, Ontario.

Philip De Souza: And fun fact for you listeners. We met Steven at the recent AdvantAge Ontario Annual Convention. As we always strive to have unique experiences for people we interact with, at this year's convention we set up a really cool pop-up experience that included networking and connecting with colleagues and sharing knowledge across the sector. But we also asked our long-term community to share who they thought were some changemakers in the community. We received a ton of responses. And a lot of them were Steven. Steven had given a passion talk earlier that morning at the keynote. So we reached out to Steven and we have him on the show today. So we're so lucky to have him.

And speaking of one-of-a-kind experiences. Marc, I know you're really busy right now on our LinkedIn channel, creating a unique experience for people to watch a show on property, a facility focus. Tell people more about that.

Marc Aiello: That's right, Philip. So we have a new web series on our LinkedIn channel called Facility Focus. It's about all things property and facilities, and we are showcasing the work our subscribers do in addressing today's most pressing property challenges while creating a more resilient and safe healthcare system. So that's available on our LinkedIn page and we encourage you to go there and check it out.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, it's amazing. And so we know you listeners subscribe to the pod, but if you get a chance, we encourage you to head over to our LinkedIn channel and hit followed there as well. And while you're at it, be sure to share with a friend or a colleague, together we could turn the corner on patient safety. So without further ado, Marc, let's get to the show.

Marc Aiello: Well welcome Steven. It's great having you here and thank you for chatting with us today.

Dr. Steven Harrison: Well, thank you for inviting me on. This should be lots of fun. At least that's what I've been promised, so I'm looking forward to it.

Marc Aiello: Yeah, absolutely. I've been really looking forward to it as well. So let's jump right into it. So you have a ton of experience in healthcare and social services with over 20 years in the industry. Has there been a moment in that time where looking back now you see an inflection point in what's shaped your current approach to being an effective leader?

Dr. Steven Harrison: I thought about this a fair bit and there have been lots. Anyone who's been in a leadership position for a while has probably had several moments in their career where they stand back and look at things and think, "Wow, that one really helped to shape me." But there's one that stands out for me. And it came on, I'm quite fortunate a little bit earlier in my career, and it was at a time when we were going through an integration between two organizations. And bringing organizations together is something that has to be seen as selfless. In the end, you're basically working yourself out of a job usually, particularly when you're in that leadership role. And what happened, in my case, it was a successful integration and I actually worked myself out of a job and ended up starting to have to go on a job hunt.

But during that time, you're working flat out for your organization. We were an organization that was growing at the time on top of the integration, we were redeveloping, we were expanding. And you're giving yourself as a leader at 110% as you always do. That's just what we do. And then all of a sudden it comes to an end. Your integration's successful. And it sounds simple, it took a couple years, but in my case, once it was all done, I was thanked by my board. I had that traditional slab cake and everyone said, "Thanks so much." And off they went. And I was standing there thinking, "Geez, that was great. But now what?" It really did is it compelled me to realize something. Leadership is truly a privilege. And you hear people say that a lot, but it is. It becomes very real when it impacts you directly as a leader though.

And so I always take the approach that you have to be selfless, supportive, community oriented, focused, those kinds of things. But it's not a birthright being in a leadership role. And so what this also taught me is be ready for tomorrow and learn from every single opportunity that presents itself to you. Rarely, if ever, am I even close to being the smartest person in the room, I would never even say that on the best of my days. I might be experienced old, been around a long time like wallpaper, well-known. But what I'm trying to bring to the table as an effective leader is to give people tips and tricks, experience on how to handle situations, but not all situations because frankly I haven't been in all of them. And the integration taught me the lesson that leadership is truly about growing people, knowing when to cut your losses and being strong enough to separate the emotion from the decision and do what's right for your organization.

And I learned that early on, as I mentioned, and it's not a, leadership is never a popularity contest. So today more than ever, it seems clear to me that you're only as good as your last success story. And even then in today's world, that sometimes seems questionable.

Philip De Souza: I love what you're saying, Steven and a lot of leaders are listening right now. One word that popped to the surface when you were talking is the word vulnerability. So what advice would you give leaders to tap into that vulnerability that you spoke about on your journey?

Dr. Steven Harrison: When it comes down to it, it also reflects back to a sentiment I share with my team here frequently where I am now and I've always said is HR is there for everybody in an organization. And so that vulnerability is important. We are, leaders are not, we don't fly around with a cape and we don't change our outfits in the old proverbial phone booth, although there have been times when I've had to change in the back of the car because you're running from one place to the other. That's a different story altogether. But certainly vulnerability is key to leadership and it's not about crying in a meeting or anything like that. It's really about understanding that you have a role and a place within the organization and people look up to you constantly. They looked to you for guidance.

During that integration. I had about 100 people working for me and my organization and there were about an equal number in the other. And the questions from my leadership team and from others in the room were, what does this mean for me? No one was thinking about me as a leader. And you put on that brave face and you support people through their crisis and their concerns about, am I going to have a job? What does this mean? Are we going to have to relocate? I've worked here for all these years, I don't want to lose my position in the community. And then you get in your car and I always tell people, my car knows more about my day than just about anybody else because it is the place where I decompress on the drive home. It's always been that way.

But being vulnerable is, it's critical. You have to be, no one expects you to be infallible as a leader. What they do expect from you though is they expect you to be that solid safe space that they can come to and talk about their concerns. And my HR person and I where I am currently, have a very good relationship because every now and then I'll close the door and say, here's where I'm coming from in my role or what we're dealing with in my office. And it's nice to have someone you can talk to like that. But vulnerability is part of the ride in leadership these days. It's a very challenging health and social service world out there. Anyone who tells you that they're not feeling vulnerable on any given day is not telling you the truth to be honest with you.

Marc Aiello: And speaking about your career Steven, you started as a personal support worker for a number of years before becoming CEO. How has your early experience as a caregiver shaped your leadership style and the values you emphasize at Tri-County Mennonite Homes?

Dr. Steven Harrison: Those days as a PSW, long, long time ago in a land far away, I was a PSW, seems very, very long time ago. I was a PSW in the community in Scarborough. Oh geez, last century. How about I just leave it at that? And I spent a few years doing that and I was doing home care supports for individuals who had some complex health needs, MS, dementia and other assorted physical and psychosocial ailments. And it was a great learning experience for me. It was my first entry into direct care provision. And it helped me to shape a number of thinkings, leadership being one of them, but commitment to work towards a better system was another. I was on the front line and I saw what worked and what didn't. And it made me think, at the time I was actually thinking of going down the route of becoming a clinician.

I did my MCATs and got into med school and did all that and then changed my mind. And went in a different direction because where I saw myself bringing more value was not in being a clinician and hindsight being 2020, I probably should have gone down that road given the desperate situation we have for clinicians in the system these days. But at the time I was really thinking about where I could best bring myself. And it was all about how I could influence system design and change. And so having that experience of home care, so to speak, I really got working away on my education side, on getting myself into a systems approach. But on the leadership side, the world changes pretty much every day. And what I was doing back then is so dramatically different than what I see people doing today, in my home, in the community working for home care. The experiences all those years ago is so different today our needs have changed, the systems changed, expectations have changed.

But what has stayed core to all of this is that compassion, the perseverance, the willingness to go above and beyond and do the job. That has to be in place. That's what makes you a great clinical support person out there. And PSWs, we have a couple 100 of them working for me right now. They're fabulous people and they come to work every day with the notion of getting the right job done the best that they can. But what I learned also as that PSW, which led me to my system's desires, is that healthcare is a business. And you can have all that compassion in your heart that you want, but really when you strip off all of those elements of the provision of care, the biggest thing that you come to realize is that there is no care without a business model to support it.

And so my academic background's in anthropology and my doctorate was in medical anthropology and community health. So deep diving into the human condition and broad-based social determinants of health have been a focal point for me for years. It's what I do. But how do you bring this to leadership has always been my goal. And so understanding humans to me is not only important leadership, but also in the provision of care. And I think my personal take on this, and I have said this multiple times, is every single leader in health and social services should be compelled to take some anthropology courses. Pick one in the four sub-disciplines, whether it's cultural anthropology, archeology, linguistics, physical anthropology, whichever one you want, pick one, take some courses. Learn what it is to be studying the human condition. It truly opens your eyes.

And it's what's helped me not only when I was a PSW all those years ago, but also as a leader all the way into today. And so what it really did is it gave me a little bit of that leader-know-thyself way of thinking. I learned as a PSW that it was not something I wanted to do forever. I aspired to do more. It was a starting point for me and it gave me a great foundation, but I needed more. And so it's hard work and I acknowledge that with my team every time I get a chance. But every role in health and social services is a tough job these days and they're only getting tougher. So what that role as a PSW truly taught me was that I wanted to do more to support the system, be part of it, build it and make it better. And I stand back and look at it and I'm not sure that I've really had that impact that I desired yet, but I'm not quite done yet, so I'll keep going.

Marc Aiello: Right. Well, every step counts. And I love what you said about having both that academic experience and then of course the practical experience being a PSW to give you that wholesome outlook as a leader, almost covering all angles to give you the full scope of things. And for my next questions, from our research, it said that you have both national and international experience. And speaking of the human condition, I guess globally, what's been the most significant things that you've learned working around the world?

Dr. Steven Harrison: I've pretty much worked in every continent except Antarctica with the penguins these days it seems. And that has given me truly that global citizen approach. And I think today more than ever, it's really important. I have worked in peacekeeping healthcare system reform, recruitments, community development, education, leadership developments and a whole bunch of other stuff. But what it's all taught me above all else is you have to unburden yourself of your preconceived notions of what you think or actually believe as a Canadian, and immerse yourself in the world in which you find yourself and learn from that experience. It's called participant observation for those people out there who have a social sciences background, and it's a skill, it's also an art, but it's one worth learning.

And so I've learned more about myself in general, about life and just who I am as a leader and an individual from the places I've been to than I think I've ever brought to those places. I always joke with people, my luggage feels heavier coming home than when I go out into the world because I'm bringing that much more depth and understanding of people and all of the work I've done when I come back. But what it's also taught me is that Canada's in a bit of a struggle right now with the notion of how to be global in thinking and behavior. Recognition of international experiences embraced the world over. I'm a living example of that. The experience that I had in Southeast Asia put me in connection with people in Africa, which led to work that I did for them.

However, when you come to Canada, much of that international experience is discarded offhandedly. And the incredible minds, and I've met many people in this country, great experience, but their experience is getting wasted and not being recognized here in Canada because we have this, you need to have Canadian experience idea. And I know most recently there have been some changes specifically for nurses and some other clinicians that you no longer have to have that Canadian experience under your belt in order to look to register here in Canada. But a Canadian occupational therapist or a Canadian nurse traveling to the UK or to South Africa or to other parts of the world does not have to go through a re-registration process. Their education from Canada is accepted at face value.

But when someone from South Africa or from the UK comes to Canada, there's a process that they have to go through and it usually requires them to wait and work at a lesser level of care or a lower standard than they're perhaps trained to do or have already been doing simply because of where they got their education. I think that's a bit of a problem for us. It puts us in a bad position. If we want to be a global player, we need to drop the thinking and drop it in a hurry because the world is not going to wait for us. Not simply a policy shift. It's a cultural shift.

And so we see this in challenges around staffing, but we see it in the social and cultural struggles that we're having right now, like any given day, if you pick up the newspaper, you can see it in this country and in many others, but certainly in Canada it's very, very acute right now. Diversity is not at the top of the leadership structures and we also need to be considering that. If everyone's trained in the same place, goes to the same place, gets their post-secondary education in the same place, cuts their teeth underneath the same leaders, grows up, does all of that work in the same place, we will always face every challenge in the same way because we haven't gone out and actually expanded our horizons. And so diversity of thought, approach, perspective, not always well accepted. And when you're taking that global citizen approach to challenges, you're going to be pushing against the status quo. And that is quite often seen as a threat.

When I stand back and take a look at what my international experience has taught me, it's taught me that never give up, never surrender, all those good things. But certainly there is so much to learn from the seven billion plus people who live everywhere else except here in Canada. We probably need to embrace some of that and recognize that experience. They're not doing it wrong, they're just doing it differently. Let's bring some of that difference back and see if we can actually improve our system here.

Marc Aiello: So Steven, you've previously mentioned that this is a pivotal time right now in seniors care with huge needs and opportunities. What would you say are the biggest challenges at the moment and what are the biggest opportunities?

Dr. Steven Harrison: One of the biggest opportunities, I think Canada, Ontario, but certainly Canada as a whole has right now is the actual Canada Health Act. It gives us a structure, and that might not be a popular sentiment, but hold on we'll come back to that. But it gives us a structure I think that many other health systems don't have to work from. It was a bit of a social experiment when it was first put in place and it needs to be updated to incorporate seniors care more appropriately that we found out during the pandemic is woefully lacking in the Canada Health Act and it's divested to the provinces to manage and there's a whole bunch of work that needs to be done there. But it is foundational and as Canadians, we should be thinking of ourselves as very fortunate in having that in many regards.

From this comes our healthcare systems and some of our social care systems. And although we might not think they're working particularly well right now, they exist and there are countries, many of which I've been to where it does not exist. And when you are having a hard time, your health, your social status, your employment, whatever is challenged, there's nothing there for you. And so as Canadians, we should really be thankful that that's there. And that is definitely an opportunity as we're looking at seniors care, but just in general as we're looking at care.

An opportunity that exists with seniors care specifically, we have a gigantic wave of change that's not coming at us. It's here, it's on top of us right now. And demographics moving faster than we are at any point capable of understanding right now, but that's an opportunity. Out of chaos always comes an opportunity. You just got to look for it. Learn, grow, adapt to the change, but you have to be nimble.

The need is crushing though. So taking advantage of that opportunity, casting off the shackles of the past and really thinking about how to grow towards that need is that opportunity that exists right now for us. This is an opportunity for us to move forward and revolutionize. Hop, skip, and jump past all the chaos that everyone else went through to get to this point and just get on with it. But this does lead me to the idea of some challenges. In Canada and in seniors care in particular, we're not really good at innovating. We're good at talking about innovation, but we're not good at deploying it. Rarely do we ever see the deployment of those pilot projects into formal scaled supports and services for individuals. So I think that's going to be one of our Achilles heels.

We are somewhat hamstrung by the Canada Health Act. It is both an opportunity and a challenge. And although it's a foundational stone for us, it was written a long time ago and regulatory reform, sure, but a lot's changed in the world since the Canada Health Act was first brought forward. And maybe what we need to do is not tinker with the mechanics of what it is, but have the honest conversation as to whether it's the right foundation stone at this point of the 21st century and looking forward. And that too is probably not a very welcomed kind of concept, but when it comes down to it, for better or for worse, it's what we have, but we need to start adapting. So provincial legislative structures fall into this category as well. And as such we're a little bit stuck. And it's not about money. It's not just about money. There's a lot of opportunity to do better with what we have. It just requires us to think differently with about what we're doing.

And so some of our systems approaches are antiquated and lacking in a modern societal or modern impact analysis. I'm redeveloping my home currently here at Tri County and going through an expansion of our long-term care services. And the process that we're going through is crushing. The model of how we get to more is a very difficult conversation. There's a lot of policy in it and everything else. And when I stand back and take a look at things, let me give you a specific example right now. In the revamped version of the Long-Term Care Act, which just came out a couple years ago, we have moved towards a model of four hours of direct support per resident in long-term care. It's a provincial aggregate average. The statistics behind it would boil the brain of most epidemiologists and biostatisticians out there, but the point is we're supposed to be moving towards four hours of care per resident per day who reside in long-term care beds in Ontario.

This is a great idea. We're supposed to be completed that role this year. By the end of this fiscal cycle we're supposed to have that rolled out. Here's the interesting thing. The four hours of care that's spoken about that we're aspiring to was developed in a report whose data is almost 25 years old now. So we are deploying based on a report, a four hour of care model for seniors. And that report came out, I think it was in 2006 or 2008 timeframe, but the data that was accumulated to build that report came prior to that. So we're deploying a 20-year-old policy statement. And it's wonderful that we're doing it finally. But today's model says that that number should almost be double. We should be up to seven or eight hours. And individuals in long-term care are not only in need of clinical care, this is about recreation support, this is about social engagement and spiritual care, things like that.

So as much as we say we're trying to move forward and we're doing great work in the seniors care world, for example, we're catching up on decades old thinking, which means by the time this is fully deployed here in 2025, we are already 20 years behind minimally where many other countries are at this time. We're really not keeping pace. And so we're also one of the things that's happening here in Ontario, and this will be my last thought on this. I think when I look at challenges, we are moving towards the model of building bigger, which seems to be better. Hundreds and hundreds of beds in long-term care. 1000 or more beds in an acute care environment, in a single facility in acute care or a single home in long-term care. We de-institutionalized hospitals and long-term care eons ago. We knew that putting 1000, 1200, 1500 acute care beds in one facility was not the right move. And having 500 people living together in a long-term care facility because it's not a home, I don't know anyone who has 500 people living in their home plus staff.

These are not the ways forward for folks yet. What's old is new again, and we seem to be going back to this very large scaled model. I think that this requires a bit of a tap of the brakes and some thinking around what is the opportunity or the lost opportunity as the case may be, the challenge that's created by this, in housing people in such large numbers? We just came through a pandemic where we learned that putting people together in large congregate environments was not the way to go. It created the spread of an infectious disease. Yet this seems to be our model as we roll forward. I think there's opportunity here.

Marc Aiello: It sounds through our discussion that engaging individuals in high quality compassionate care is really the hall mark of your work and the work of TCMH. How do you foster this engagement among your staff and other key stakeholders?

Dr. Steven Harrison: It's interesting. I guess the best way I can describe this is I create opportunities for people to be their best self. And it's something that I find it seems to come fairly naturally. Others may disagree with that, but I think it comes together fairly naturally for me. But I try to help people just simply be who they can be in the best version of themselves. Most people I've met in health and social services come into the field of a place of wanting to help in some way. You don't come here because you want to be a millionaire. There are other options to do that. You come here because this is your calling so to speak. And it gets you in as one of my team would say here, it gets you in your feels. It's an emotional response to things. And that makes the job a whole lot easier when you start from that place.

But bringing people together, helping them find their strength, releasing them to build on those strengths. So definitely play onto people's strengths, understand that everyone has their blind spots and opportunities for growth, but really building on people's strengths. Investing in them, getting them extra supports where needed, but pushing them. And I push hard. No one around here will tell you that it's an easy ride with me for sure. I do push people sometimes well outside of their comfort zone, but it is all in a vein of helping them to grow as a professional, given that, and I never push people over the edge, it's more about pushing them to that point where supports are in place or opportunities are in place for them to grow and develop and really challenge themselves professionally.

I was raised in a world where the only way to succeed was to work hard. And there's the whole concept of working smarter. But these days, no matter how smart you may think you are, you got to work hard too. And so that sweat equity piece is needed and I encourage and really push my team to understand that it's not all going to be found on Google, you're going to have to actually rise from your chair and get involved with human beings. This is what we do. And actually spend time with them to find out what's going on.

Success, excellence, growth, development, it doesn't happen by coasting. And I guess that's the whole point here. So creating a safe space for folks, pushing them out of their comfort zone and ensuring that they know it's okay to fail, get up and go again if you do. And it's like learning to ride a bike. When I think about it as I've been teaching my kid over the last couple of years to ride a bike, every now and then he comes home with a skinned knee. And skinning your knee, I always tell him is how I do my day and day to day as well. It's not always perfect. I fall off my bike and take the skin off my knees and elbows once in a while, but it's what you do with it afterwards that matters. You can get a Band-Aid, but keep going.

And so as I look at our organization, I mentioned this earlier, we are not just, we're building a building, it's bricks and mortar, but what happens inside that building is what will set us apart. And it is inspiring people towards operational excellence. It's not the edifice that will make this home a home. It is what they will do inside this home that will make it rich and lively. And that I think is the most important part. Learning for all of us, but for one person that I have in my home in particular, it's about learning that you have a voice, but in leadership in particular, when you sit around a room not being that smartest person in the room, you're sitting around with eight or 10 really smart people, your voice may not translate into the final product of a policy or a building structure or a program or a change, a budget ask. That doesn't mean that you failed.

And that is a learning that everyone is going through right now. Budgets are tight. And so when we sit down and we talk about things and we talk about where we want to go as an organization, I have one person in particular who says, "But what I put forward didn't happen. So is that a statement about how I am as a leader, how you perceive me??" And the answer is absolutely not. It's just that competing priorities be what they are. Thank you for sharing. I haven't forgotten, none of us have, but just in this moment, that's probably not going to happen. We have other areas where we need to invest and or divest ourselves.

And it is that constant positive to and fro, that healthy tension, so to speak, that I think makes for some of the best leaders, but it gives you that opportunity to really engage your staff and your stakeholders around the art of the possible. But then the follow-up to that is the science of the reality of what will be. And it is that piece that we work on every single day and it is, I have to learn too. There's times when I want to do things and I'm like, "I don't understand why this can't happen. It makes complete sense to me. I just want it to go, let's go." And the minister says no, or the budget says no, or something happens or legislation gets in the way. Goodness me. But you work through those things.

It's a learning experience for all of us. And I share those stories. It's that vulnerability question you asked earlier. I share those stories with my team so they realize that even with the title of CEO, you don't get what you want. In fact, I'd say I probably get what I want far less often than anyone would like to imagine. But you learn from that and you grow from it. And it is that support that I'm trying to bring to my team as well.

Marc Aiello: Now I'm sure you've had a number of mentors throughout your career, given your experience. What's a piece of advice from a mentor that really stuck with you and that you'd like to share with emerging leaders in healthcare today?

Dr. Steven Harrison: As you travel around a lot and you meet lots of people, there are those who definitely leave a mark, an indelible mark on your professional soul so to speak. But a couple things that really come to mind here. I was once told compromise when you can but never be intransigent. Always remember shifting your position is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of learning from the room, growing your position and actually inspiring others. Remember when, but the caveat to that was when the buck stops with you, you have to take a position. You cannot be a successful leader if you're wishy-washy on things. You have to be able to take a position. That's the job. Never fail to do the job. And that one has stuck with me for many years. It's helped me through many a day. Another thing that someone said to me once was never rely on your perceived successes of the past.

Your perception is but one thing and what is a win of yesterday or what you perceive as your win of yesterday is only a building block for tomorrow. So the traditional idea of always remember that each day you're trying to make the team and come to the table with your A-game sticks here. And it's very true, but never rest on your laurels, I guess is what it comes down to. Don't look back and say, "Well, I did that," and someone will also come along and say, "Well, that was great, but I've done this, that and the next thing." And so really, really think about that and hold onto that.

I guess the only other thing that I'll say here is it's not something someone has said to me specifically, but certainly something I've been developing the thinking around, and you read about it constantly. But your character's who you are and your reputation is what people think of you. And as important as it may seem to you about what your reputation is, it's your character that you have to stay true to. And in the end, particularly in leadership in an era of social and social media running a muck and all this other stuff where people can post hurtful, hateful things about you on the internet and there's really nothing you can do about it. You need to manage your reputation, but you have to stay true to who you are. Stay true to that character and hold that near and dear to your heart. It's not a popularity contest being in leadership, so don't expect everyone to love you, but certainly don't expect everyone to hate you either. Find your middle ground, but be comfortable in your own skin and who you are.

Marc Aiello: I may have saved this final question before our lightning round, of course for last, but congratulations once again on being elected Chair of AdvantAge Ontario. That's a massive achievement of course, and a testament to the long-term care community's confidence in you. Why would you say it's important for you to give back to the long-term care community, and what are you most looking forward to now on being on the board?

Dr. Steven Harrison: Thanks for that. It's been a whirlwind of activity since I became the chair of the board or joined the board at AdvantAge, which is some four or five years ago now. And also since I took on my role as CEO at Tri County, it is the last four or five years have been action packed I think in more ways than one, but certainly this is great. So as I go into my fifth year on the board and now as chair, I'm but one of 16 people on that board from across our regions and the breadth and scope of seniors care across Ontario.

And when I took the position, which I started back in mid-May, I committed to myself and to the sector, a couple of things, and one of them was that I was going to be busy. I was going to be on the phones, I was going to be out in the community, I was going to meet with people. I was going to take the time for email and all the rest of it, and I have a CEO's job on the side of all this. So this is that voluntary pursuit on the side, but certainly my commitment was to get out and do that and I've been doing a lot of that, talking with our vendors, our stakeholders, government partners, other associations in the province as well.

And it's very much my role was as vice chair, just on hyper drive. It's incredible how much energy you can put into this, and anyone who's gotten to know me over the years knows that I'm a short hours of sleep and long hours of activity kind of guy. I've been like that for many, many years. And so I take advantage of that in this role because it's like having a second full-time job sometimes on the side.

For me, giving back to the sector is critical. We're a sector that took a reputational beating during the pandemic. And in some regards it was like a bit of a character assassination. We were laid to bear in front of everybody in the media, just about everywhere. And we're recovering. And so we just talked about this character and reputation thing. And so long-term's character was challenged over these last few years, not just our reputation, our character, who we are at the core. And so we're still here. We have inspections, we have new regulations, we have a new Long-Term Care Act, and we are a strong community of leaders and that's why I accepted the role as chair. When I was nominated. It's to be part of that large table of really bright minds talking about what we're going to do to help our sector recover, but also move forward.

What I want to give back is simply presence, support a voice, a commitment to serve the sector as we continue forward and recover. It's no great mystery, our sector is in the throes of change. Legislation aside, but like many out there that are going through change, we are changing in an environment where we're recovering and we're trying to adapt to that change all at once. And it's a pretty tough recipe to work with. I'm here to try and help and work with our constituent members across the elder care sector. And far beyond just our membership. It's about embracing our for-profit colleagues, talking with acute care and our colleagues at the OHA. Ministry of Education and Labour taking a look at what's going on with health human resource strategies across the country, not only the province. And really trying to embrace all of that and put it together on behalf of our sector to create an opportunity. An opportunity for us all to grow and evolve and develop.

It's that coordinated voice that I want to do. And it's not the job of one person. Like I mentioned, there's 16 of us on this board. My 15 colleagues and I are going to do this together. I would be foolish to think that I could do this on my own. And there's an entire team that existed AdvantAge Ontario from a staff side, and together we are the group that's going to try and lead this forward. And I look forward to doing it. The other piece that happens, and there's a divide I think amongst folks these days as we're recovering from the pandemic, we all became very accustomed to Zoom and Teams and the opportunity to work remotely and to engage with people very two-dimensionally through a screen.

I'm a person who was brought up with the notion of walk out and shake somebody's hand. And I know all the IPAC people might be cringing out there saying, "Oh my God, hand sanitizer. Fine." But the point is we need to re-engage at that human level, and I think that will speed up our recovery, but also give us a great launching point forward. And so it is that along with a myriad of other policy and budgetary things and all that other good stuff that you have to do as an advocacy association, but certainly reconnecting and the opportunity of being the chair at this particular time to start to reconnect and re-forge those relationships, not just rebuild them, but forge them back together. I think that's the part I'm looking forward to the most.

Marc Aiello: It's time Steven for the lightning round of our chat together. For this, I'll be asking you a series of rapid-fire questions and you could either answer them with one word, a sentence, or really however you want. It's up to you.

Dr. Steven Harrison: All right.

Marc Aiello: So the first one is, if you could only read one book for the rest of your life, what would that book be?

Dr. Steven Harrison: I don't find this to be a fair question at all.

Marc Aiello: I know, it's tough. It's a tough one.

Dr. Steven Harrison: To be honest with you, it's impossible. However, I think if I could sit in a comfy chair with a bottomless bottle of port, I think I would dig into some Leo Tolstoy, to be honest with you. Just one of my favorite, very deep thinking authors, but you need an opportunity to have a drink and really absorb. And so that would be my choice.

Marc Aiello: If you could spend a day in someone else's shoes, whose would they be and why?

Dr. Steven Harrison: Contemporary person of the modern era. I would say Bono from U2 because to be able to make an impression on people through song, influence political policy, and drive change, and then also have that robust creative process, I would love to experience that. Because part of it is what I love to do. Part of it is something that I just can't do. I don't have that creative bone in me, so I would really love to know what that feels like.

Marc Aiello: If you could have dinner with any famous or historical figure, who would it be?

Dr. Steven Harrison: Winston Churchill, without even thinking about it twice. The era, the environment, the opportunity that Winston Churchill experienced in his role as Prime Minister at that time, that crucial time in human history, would love to sit down and have a dialogue about what that really felt like and how that worked.

Marc Aiello: If you had to be shipwrecked on a deserted island, but all your human needs such as food and water were taken care of, what two items would you want to have with you?

Dr. Steven Harrison: An endless supply of music. So the entire Amazon or Apple Music catalog available to me with an incredible stereo system. I can't tolerate crappy sounding music. It would have to be really, really good sounding music. But lots of music. I am an audiophile that way. And the other piece, a really good knife. I have traveled the world and the one thing that is rung true, no matter where you go in this world, a really good knife will get you out of pretty much all of life's hardships. I have learned through my days, you can pack a backpack with hundreds of different things in it, but when it comes down to it, if you have good music and you have a good knife, you can pretty much get through almost all of life's drama.

Philip De Souza: Hearing your passion in your voice, I have one more last-minute addition to the lightning round. If you, Marc, and I said to you, "Oh, you know what, you get to have your own podcast, Steven. That's how good you are." What would your podcast be about and who would be your first guest?

Dr. Steven Harrison: Holy smokes.

Philip De Souza: I know. Throwing a curve ball.

Dr. Steven Harrison: I would say if I could have a podcast on any topic it would probably be on something along the lines of adapting experiences to the Canadian model of care.

I would love to sit down with the policy people who have designed the NHS, and the policy people who have been spearheading the redevelopment of the community health framework that's used in South Africa, and bring them to the table to have a conversation about what they've learned, what works, what doesn't. Because in South Africa, they're dealing with highly vulnerable, very impoverished individuals who have precarious housing, social supports, finances. And when I take a look at where the Canadian mix is right now, we have a population of individuals who are struggling that way. And I think learning from a country that's had sadly decades of this would be really interesting and important.

And I think the NHS has created some really interesting innovative strategies. They're not all successful, but certainly sitting down with some of the policy people about what they've learned, what's worked, what hasn't, leapfrogging past some of that, and being able to deploy it here as a starting point, that would be great. I can think of business leaders, individuals in the education sphere, a whole bunch of them that would be incredible to bring forward, but it's that global citizenry thinking that I would really like to dive into a bit deeper.

Marc Aiello: Well, I think this is a great spot to end our discussion. For now, Steven. I really enjoyed our talk today, how in-depth it was. It was excellent, so thank you again for your time and for sharing so much with our listeners. We really appreciate it.

Dr. Steven Harrison: Oh, thank you so much for having me. And if you ever decide to do a podcast on the global thinking and the global way of being, give me a call. I'd be happy to come back and be part of a panel on that one.

Thank you for listening. You can hear more episodes of Healthcare Change Makers on our website, hiroc.com, and on your favorite podcasting apps. If you like what you hear, please rate us or post a review. Healthcare Change Makers is recorded by HIROC's Communications and Marketing team and produced by Podfly Productions. Follow us on Twitter at @HIROCGROUP or email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you.