Catherine Gaulton: The Power of Human Interaction
(Access show transcript) As 2023 wraps up, our final guest of the year features HIROC CEO, Catherine Gaulton. When reflecting on this past year, the resilience and dedication of the healthcare community helped her recharge and remain optimistic.
Show Summary
With a new year on the horizon, Catherine is looking forward to so many things – the continued efforts in Health Human Resources, advancing the work in the main areas of Risk, the future of Collaborative Benefits, and so much more.
“My optimism is around people that surprise me every day. When I think you can’t help but be defeated, human spirit and strength comes forward every time”, says Catherine when explaining her positive outlook for 2024.
In this episode, Catherine gives us a glimpse into the mind of a CEO, including her zest for learning new things and how she recharges and stays inspired through even the most difficult of times.
Before we let her go, a surprise guest joins us to chat and gives us a sneak peak into what family time looks like for Catherine!
Mentioned in this Episode
Transcript
Imagine you could step inside the minds of Canada's healthcare leaders, glimpse their greatest fears, strongest drivers, and what makes them tick. Welcome to Healthcare Change Makers, a podcast where we talk to leaders about the joys and challenges of driving change and working with partners to create the safest healthcare system.
Philip: Hey listeners, it's Philip from HIROC. How's your day going? Hopefully better because you just hit play to listen to Healthcare Change Makers. Thank you so much for being a fan of our show. You have no idea how much joy that brings us.
Okay, we've made it to the end of 2023 and we're back with HIRCO CEO, Catherine Gaulton. It's become an annual tradition now where we grab some time with Catherine to hear her thoughts in the past 12 months as well as looking forward to the year ahead. And for you avid listeners, you may remember during our chat last December with Catherine, I brought up the idea of perhaps having one of her family members join us on the show because really, who doesn't want to know what their CEO talks about at dinner with her family? Am I right? Well, I manifested it, and we're so happy that Ben, one of Catherine's sons, was able to join in for a few questions.
Okay, let's get to it. Enjoy the show. Hey listeners, it's Philip here and I am with our CEO, Catherine Gaulton. Welcome, Catherine.
Catherine: Hi. Thanks having me Philip.
Philip: Every year now, we've made it a tradition of sitting down with Catherine at the end of the year and just having a chat with her as we close the year out. And thank you to you, all our listeners, as you've been making this particular episode with Catherine each year one of our highest downloads and top listen. So thank you for that. So Catherine, you're in demand.
Catherine: Oh my gosh, I can't imagine why, but thank you all nonetheless.
Philip: Well, let's get to it. So Catherine, what are some highlights from the year for you personally?
Catherine: It's been a huge, huge year for HIROC, for the subscribers that we serve. It's really massive. I think the stressors in this year are huge inflation, the market, recovering from the pandemic while still being in the midst of the pandemic, trying to balance the innovations that we achieved during the pandemic and whether they're appropriate to continue, the real stresses in relation to health human resource, really the trauma that is associated both from afar and closer in our involvement with the wars that are occurring.
So it's a huge, huge year, and in fact, what's important, I think, is that those are all things that need to be acknowledged, we need to think about the impact on us, and yet it makes me even more amazed at... Resilience is actually probably not even a strong enough word, but the true strength and perseverance and intent to do well for all of those we serve, both if you're a HIROC staff and certainly for the staff of our subscribers who are working in what some would consider to be almost impossible situations. And yet, predominantly, when we talk to patients and I talk to people I know who have been patients, the experiences is wonderful. And that's just [inaudible 00:04:00].
This week we were dealing with a board meeting and lots of really pithy issues for HIROC, and in the midst of it, one of our board members delivered two babies the night before. So there're these juxtapositions, I guess, of so much that is going on and yet this sense, this reason still for hope because the bedrock of what we provide in our healthcare system and the people who provide it is so very strong. Lots of impressions there, but I continually to be impressed by the people I work with every day and by the people that we have the true pleasure of serving in the healthcare system who are doing the work that is fundamental to the life of so many citizens in this country.
It sounds lofty and yet it is very real in the life of so many people. And I don't know, I can't say other words except that I'm impressed. I've been around for a long time in the healthcare system and I'm impressed always, but impressed even more this year.
Philip: Oh no, absolutely. And just the example you gave of one of our board members, that in itself is just knowing how much our board works and collaborates with you and the team here at HIROC. And then of course, they all have day jobs, in charge of organizations and people and a variety of things that just shows you just our amazing board, how much they're doing. And then you personally introduced me to different... When we meet up with different subscribers and then I hear about the innovations and the safety projects and just everything they're working on, I'm like, how? I have to amplify this. But there's so many stories to tell, so that just shows you how much is happening in the system and how much impact and change. So I totally agree with you. There's this... You're right, the word resilience is like... There must be a different word, a bigger word for the gravity of everything that's happening. But I agree with you.
Catherine: I agree, and lots of things at HIROC, Philip, I think of not HIROC, but HIROC Management Limited and its work with the Ontario Hospital Association to really dedicate itself to coming up with what is, I think, a phenomenal benefits opportunity for which of course has its own impact on health human resource, its own impact on cost in the system. That's huge.
We started the foundation six years ago, with thinking if we were able to give out at $100,000 a year in grants, that would be phenomenal work. And of course it is phenomenal work. This year, we'll be giving out more than $330,000 actually and add it to that, another opportunity which will take us near $400,000-
Philip: That's amazing.
Catherine: ... in grants this year, up now over 50 projects that have been entirely devoted to increasing quality and safety in the system where the HIROC Foundation plays a small part even through funding or through in kind support. And that's huge. The fact that we have people in the system who really want to do their jobs so well that they are signing up in record numbers to cyber podcasts, to conferences we hold, to training programs or learning programs like our risk residency program, that's huge. A record number of requests to speak to boards because they really want to be so steeped in quality and patient safety all over the country. Lots, lots, and lots to make you very optimistic about this system. At the same time, of course, as we have to absolutely acknowledge what's happening to all of us, some more closer to it than others in the world right now. But anyway, you're right. It would go on forever.
Philip: Speaking of that optimism, is there something, one or two or it could be many things, that you're looking forward to in 2024? I can't believe I'm saying that year.
Catherine: I absolutely am. I think in 2024, we have a great strategy and with a real opportunity to do even more in relation to the main areas of risks that we have, so our maternal child and our mental health areas and surgery and cyber and all of those. And I think some of the things that we are doing together with our subscribers are already paying dividends and will pay even bigger dividends. I think the work around health human resource, both in the system to the extent that HIROC can bring a balanced lens of risk, advocate for a healthy consideration of risk, and for what might be innovative things that can improve what our health human resource is facing. I have great optimism that there are things there.
Inside of HIROC, we have such massive talent. We have 92% or something higher retention rate. We have a population of employees who know that when they provide feedback, they will have a response, and I think that's phenomenal. We have 93% survey completion on our engagement survey, absolutely unheard of. We have leaders and people in our system who are really always looking for what's that next thing that we can do better and what can we do better for our subscribers? And so I'll say, when you have that as your operating environment, it's difficult to be pessimistic over the longer term. I think we'll do phenomenal things on HIROC Management Limited and collaborative benefits, working with the OHA, we'll do phenomenal things next year in relation to what that aspect of the system means in our countries around employee benefits. So lots and lots there and-
Philip: Oh, absolutely.
Catherine: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm looking forward... We've just decided where we're going in the country next year for board retreat in the opportunity to get a closer connection with subscribers in that area. It's still a bit of a secret, but it'll come out soon. So yeah. A huge number of things, Philip. But in the end, I think my optimism is really around that people surprise me every day when I think you can't help but be defeated, and yet the human spirit, the human resilience, again, I don't know if that's the word, the human strength comes forward every time. And of course there are really hard times and we were all, at times, feeling defeated by those. But the people I interact with, the people who provide care in our system, the people at HIROC, huge optimism on all those fronts.
Philip: I like that word, the strength of people, because something we had never done, say maybe probably 36 years or something, that you led us to in 2023 was having regional events where the communities in those regions got to come together, talk about the issues in those specific regions that would benefit them the most to scale those learnings. And these events that you spearheaded, Catherine, were full capacity and everyone there, they acknowledged... Exactly what you, said they acknowledged the things that could be seen as blockers, but then they talked about how they've overcome that. And I just saw how they all rallied around that and there was this feeling of exactly what you said, strength in the room of how strong the community of knowledge sharing is. And so that was an amazing, huge accomplishment this year, I think, that you spearheaded.
Catherine: I think it really is. And Philip, you talk all the time about HIROC's strength in bringing people together. And I've worked across the country as you know, and so it is always amazing to me that there are these phenomenal pockets of work all across the country, no one section having the end all and be all around it. And so that piece where we have increased opportunity to learn so that we can spread, and I think you call it HIROC as the convener, HIROC as the spreader or whatever that is, but our strength will always be that we have brilliant, brilliant people, caring people who are willing to spend time with us so that we learn what they're doing and we actually, we can take that knowledge and put it into forms that perhaps are used more generally, but that we are able to introduce these phenomenal people to each other.
This year, we went to the Northwest Territories and visited Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta, Newfoundland, and Nova Scotia, and across Ontario. And I'm amazed everywhere I go and I'm amazed sometimes that the marvelous things that are happening are not actually known from one side to the other. So the extent that HIROC brings that knowledge to the fore and actually puts these caring, brilliant people together, it's a job well done on any day of the week.
Philip: I totally agree. And just that it not only opens our eyes at HIROC, but it just allows us to put the spotlight on all the amazing folks you're talking about. So no, that's amazing. And so speaking of that, learning, what's one thing you learned this year? It could be something personal, it could be something that you learned about a subscriber or something about the system. It could be anything really.
Catherine: So I've learned a lot about healthcare benefits and those things. I mean that's substantive learning and just how fundamental that is as an aspect of care. Look, I can't tell you, amazed every time I enter into a conversation with someone somewhere in the country that I'm saying, "I did not know that for a moment and I can't wait to tell other people."
Philip: Exactly.
Catherine: I'll just tell you a very quick experience. So we were in the Northwest Territories, and of course, huge fire exposure there. And as we, Trevor and Corinne and Gareth and I, were meeting at the airport to come home, there was a particular issue around evacuation. And what's phenomenal was that we called subscribers, fellow subscribers and learned a lot about how you do this. Well, and frankly, I'll tell you, our people in our subscribers were already doing such amazing jobs. But I called colleagues in BC who are not HIROC subscribers and that equal willingness to share.
So I think we've learned a lot around how to try and put structures and necessary attention to detail around things that are hitting us from a climate change perspective, in Nova Scotia seeing three disasters all in one year. And so I've learned a lot about how you lead through that and I've learned that from leaders in the system. And so it just again speaks to the strength that we have out there.
Philip: Oh no, you're absolutely right. And so our conversation today, I can tell you're taking a lot in. You're making lots of decisions, you're talking to lots of people, connecting dots. Just so much is happening. Working, building a startup with our friends at OHA. There's so much. And so at the end of the day, I don't know how you're not tired. So what have you personally been doing to recharge when you're not working?
Catherine: I'll just say, my family and my relationship with my husband and my two sons and now their partners who are just a joy, that is absolutely huge. And Philip, you'll know that I had my lovely friend for many years, our dog, who died this year and that was really hard because he was a huge source of strength. But spending time with how I see my son's still learning and growing and being a part of that is phenomenally... And I spent time at the cottage in Nova Scotia of course, and that's helpful. Reading all the time. The tuques are still flying off the end of my fingertips in knitting.
But I think I am rejuvenated by people. And it's an interesting thing to have an introvert, I don't sound like I am, but I am, an introvert that gets energy from people, but I get huge energy from the people around me. The people at HIROC, you keep me energetic all the time because you have such energy. And so all of those things. But I think I gain my strength from people and I gain my strength from seeing just how dedicated people are to doing the right thing the overwhelming majority of the time.
Philip: Oh yeah, I can see that. I see you when we have our, at HIROC, weekly leadership huddles and especially, also I see you in the hallways, and when you hear about other people's successes, I can see it brings you authentic joy.
Catherine: It does. I love it. I love it. I don't know, I walk off the elevator and I go, "Okay, I've got 12 meetings today." But you meet someone in the hallway and you can feel a change because that's the power of human interaction, I guess. But I have the benefit of having human interaction with people who have such a vision and such a commitment to doing things for others. That's huge.
Philip: So I guess my next question then, I was going to ask you who inspires you. You sort of already answered it, but I'll ask you formally. Is there something, someone, an individual organization... Now you've mentioned your family already, so you can't say your family.
Catherine: I can't say my family anymore.
Philip: Who inspires you?
Catherine: My family does inspire me, but I am inspired by so many people that it's phenomenal. I think lately I've been really focusing on how there are women who are coming into their leadership, how there are people who have historically not been allowed, not been facilitated, whatever the right word is, to have a voice just be so strong, so strong in our system. So people who have been on the margins and perhaps we've all been complicit in keeping them there, but the strong voices and with so many focuses and moving us so much further along in how we are incorporating diversity, equity, and inclusion into everything we do, all for the better. People would say, "Well, that's a great thing to be doing. It's the right thing to do." And yet we see it materialize in what that means for patients and frankly, what that means for risks. And I think we're not too far away from seeing what that means even in the context of claims.
So there are leaders I think, who inspire me, who are the unlikely leaders, people who allow themselves to be open to criticism. Some of our CEOs who've taken phenomenal stances in relation to what might be underlying factors impacting care. And it's not just about whether you got all the clinical decisions right today, but about how you approach those decisions and how you interacted with people in the best way. So too many leaders who are doing that for me to name, but that as an aspect of what people are grabbing hold of in their leadership, is particularly inspiring for me.
And look, I am proud of the fact that my children are at the forefront of what... It's unnatural to them to think, I think, in the ways that we hope everybody gets to. So that's a huge piece for the future. My husband still makes me laugh, so that's always good. That's good and inspiring.
Philip: Yeah. No, you're right. So usually we end off our episodes with the lightning round, but we have a special guest joining shortly, so I'll have to keep you in suspense everybody. And you too, Catherine. But I thought today, it's so funny, I was talking to somebody in the office and we were just talking and I was telling them about, I don't know how it came up, but we were mentioning how you were a nurse and a lawyer, and they're like, "What?" And then so I thought, oh, I won't do a lightning round, but I will ask you what possessed you to become a nurse and then want to become a lawyer?
Catherine: The nursing thing was a bit of a natural career for a young woman in Newfoundland. Certainly there was a lot of encouragement to do that, and frankly, I was very young. You're 16 years old and coming out of high school and you take a lot of good direction from people who think that's a good way to go. It was a great way to go. You may think that that was a traditional way for a woman to be directed in her career, but nonetheless, a phenomenal exposure that I loved. Accepted I'd be dangerous, I'd be a nurse again today. So that was just time well spent, development well spent.
And look, as you continue on in your career, you find things that interest you. And I've been led by a sense of curiosity, so that when law was introduced to me as an option, it was curiosity that carried it along. It ended up being just phenomenally for me too. And the combination of that with what we do and how well it's come together. I don't know that people would think about a nurse practicing corporate law and think that those were a logical extension of each other, but that focus around the caring of nursing and the clinical aspects of nursing and then at the same time, our healthcare organizations are big, big businesses that are purchasing and governing and all of those things. So they came together.
All of that to say, probably I'm just so curious that I keep moving around. It's meant I've worked and learned from great places in this country and have never left a job because I wanted to. It was the next opportunity, it was the next move to be with family, whatever, but not because I disliked the work I was in. And so I think that means I'm entirely the luckiest of people, really.
Philip: Oh no, I think it's very fitting you mentioned the word curiosity because that's something I think for me personally, you've instilled that in me. Just be curious. And that's why when you introduced me to the different subscribers across the country, someone with, I do not have a healthcare background, but because of this curiosity, you've said, "Hey, lean into it more," it's got me learning so much about impact midwives have, and just even recently with the Ottawa Hospital, we did a story on the innovation framework, things that I probably wouldn't be exposed to if I wasn't in this job.
Catherine: Well. Exactly. And look, Philip, I think we have the great benefit of always meeting phenomenally interesting people who are doing great work. And that's great. I do think that your approach, the curiosity, you don't have to be thinking, "I'm now going for my next PhD," or something. Which is also a great thing to do.
But I think it is really that it's curiosity which presents itself as interest. And so I think you and others who take this forward, including frankly myself, that we inspire in the people we interact with the desire to help us learn. And that may be the greatest gift we get from anyone. So I'm very pleased about that.
I'll just say, to come back to HIROC for a moment, I really do want to say that I feel privileged to work with the people that I work with. Some of our folks who are retiring this year and who have retired, who have been hugely inspirational to me, who had a subscriber service etiquette that ran so deep before I ever had any interaction with them and therefore it helped to grow mine, grow my commitment to service, I have to say thank you to all of those people. You know who you are. And people in our system, in our subscribers, who continue to teach and even after they've retired, continue to contribute so hugely.
Philip: That's great you added that. And so with that, we'll be closing up. But before we close out, do you have any final words for our subscribers and our many, many listeners, who we're so grateful listen to our podcast?
Catherine: I'm grateful that people do listen. I think we could be easily defeated by what is happening to us now. And of course we need to be very cognizant and very serious about what is happening to us now. But I think there's huge place for optimism. And I think our leaders, and the people who are caring for people in our system too, I think that sense of optimism... It's difficult when you're in it, when you're so fully immersed in it. But if you're like HIROC and you're standing back just that little bit, the fact that we see so much that gives us so much confidence about what our subscribers are doing, I'd like to impart that.
I'd like to say when you're feeling most as if you can't do another thing today or it's not worth doing another thing today, to actually take the time, stop. I say to all of our folks in our organization, if you're feeling frustrated, you're feeling like you're not accomplishing what you need to and what you want to, or you're making no progress at all, that you actually give yourself the five minutes to walk around the block and to compare where life is today with how it was six months ago, and you'll be inevitably inspired by that. We are inspired by that as we look at what our subscribers are doing. So give yourself that luxury of reflection to think in the most difficult times about what you've actually achieved in even six months or a year or whatever.
Philip: No, I love that. Reflection and wellness. Thank you so much. So listeners, last year, during our year-end podcast with Catherine, I asked her about her family and we talked about her sons, Ben and Thomas. And then I said, hey, maybe we should have them or one of them on next year. And guess what? We are surprising her with one of her sons. Welcome, Ben.
Ben: Hey, thank you very much for having me. Happy to be here.
Catherine: Unreal. What a sneaky Philip to have you on, babes. I'm thrilled.
Philip: So Catherine, we thought we'd get some behind the scenes stuff. So I did send Ben a couple questions and I guess the first one is a nice question. And so Ben, what's one thing you admire about your mom?
Ben: Okay, so I thought about this. There are many things to admire about my mom. And what I was going to say was her work ethic, because she's the hardest working person I know, but I'm going to amend that slightly and say that it's her incredible work ethic and hardworking tendencies, but then her ability to come home afterwards and have the energy and have the compassion to take care of her two very needy sons, which I think is more impressive than anything and probably something I couldn't do. So that's what I admire about her.
Philip: Oh, I love that. What's your take on that, Catherine?
Catherine: Well, it's easy to have energy for those that you absolutely adore, which is the case with my sons.
Philip: Aw, that's sweet. And I can totally agree about the hardworking. Very hardworking. So why don't you give listeners a glimpse of dinner table talk. What would we overhear if we were a guest when you're all together sharing a meal?
Ben: Okay, dinner table talk. You know those things that they say you should never talk about at the dinner table?
Philip: Oh my God, stop. Yeah.
Ben: I think religion, politics, general heated debate...
Philip: Yes.
Ben: Those are the things that we like to talk about at the dinner table.
Catherine: Pay equity was a spirited one.
Ben: Some kind of contentious issue is always fun to spark off a nice dinner, of course.
Philip: And how do these conversations usually end then since they're so heavy?
Ben: Oh, in tears. Yeah, in tears.
Philip: Stop it!
Catherine: Coming to the dinner table thing, Philip, I've had a great pleasure recently of being Ben's sous chef, and that's no end of fun, where he cooks and I prepare and follow behind and clean up. And then we relax together at the dinner table with marvelously prepared food by Ben.
Ben: That was nice. And I think mom is so used to being the head chef that playing sous chef for once might've been a nice change.
Philip: And I could also tell listeners, I have had dinner with the family and I didn't feel that there was any heavy topics. Maybe you guys were on your best behavior that day, but it was good, fun talk about life and what's happening. And so I had a great time with you all.
Catherine: We did tone it down for you. And we add David and add Thomas to that mix and it becomes a mix of law and science and... Yeah. I think now about someone, a fly on the wall, watching all of that. It couldn't have been much fun. Wouldn't be much fun probably.
Philip: I've always wondered, I was like, "What did they talk about at dinner?" Well, Ben, I know you got to go. We are so happy you could join us this year, and next year we'll get your brother on too, and we'll have more banter about Catherine and how she is outside of the office.
Ben: Thanks for having me on today. This was a lot of fun. I appreciated it. And yeah, maybe we can do it again sometime. That'd be fun.
Philip: Yes, definitely. Listeners, thank you so much for tuning in and thank you, Catherine. We appreciate this conversation.
Catherine: Thank you for keeping our spirits where they are, Philip. You're absolutely a fundamental part of the organization, in keeping us on a happy, fun, and very thoughtful path as it relates to how we serve our subscribers and how we serve each other.
Thank you for listening. You can hear more episodes of healthcare change makers on our website, HIROC.com, and on your favorite podcasting apps. If you like what you hear, please rate us or post a review. Healthcare Change Makers is recorded by HIROC's Communications and Marketing team and produced by Podfly Productions. Follow us on Twitter at @HIROCGroup, or email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you.