Andrew Williams: Innovating for Exceptional Care

(Access show transcript) With over 30 years of healthcare leadership experience, Andrew Williams, President and CEO of Huron Perth Healthcare Alliance (HPHA) has always adapted to change regardless of his setting, whether that be research hospitals, the community sector, or private clinics. 

Summary

Andrew Williams and his team at HPHA are steadfast towards innovating to provide exceptional care for Canadians. One of the many efforts towards achieving this is through the completion of the Cancer and Medical Care Clinic and Pharmacy at Stratford General Hospital. This initiative is a strong testament to the fact that facilities have a positive impact on the quality of care provided, and the relationship between hospitals and their communities are key.

“We would not have been able to do this had the community not stepped forward and donated their hard-earned money towards this project. It’s fantastic for care, it means an awful lot to the patients who are receiving care now and to those who will need to access the unit moving forward,” explains Andrew when speaking to the new clinic and the importance of strong community relations. 

In this episode of Healthcare Change Makers, Andrew shares invaluable advice on being a strong leader, engaging board members, tapping into community support to leverage initiatives, and planting the seed to create strong partnerships and connections.   

Mentioned in this Episode

• Huron Perth Healthcare Alliance
• Stratford General Hospital
• Ontario Hospital Association
• Healthcare Collaborative Benefits
• London Health Sciences Centre

Transcript 

Imagine you could step inside the minds of Canada's healthcare leaders, glimpse their greatest fears, strongest drivers, and what makes them tick. Welcome to Healthcare Changemakers, a podcast where we talk to leaders about the joys and challenges of driving change and working with partners to create the safest healthcare system.

Philip De Souza: Hey listeners, it's Philip here from HIROC. Thanks again for taking time out of your day to listen to Healthcare Changemakers. It means the world to us. And after listening, if you've captured a great takeaway, I encourage you to tell a colleague or help us amplify the insight you've received by sharing this episode or your thoughts on LinkedIn. On today's show, we welcome Andrew Williams. He's the president and CEO of the Huron Perth Health Alliance. My CEO, Catherine Gaulton actually introduced me to Andrew at a CCHL event and described him as a go-to resource on all things leadership and healthcare. And as you'll quickly hear in a few moments, she's absolutely right. A few keywords that jumped out to me personally during our chat include words like trust, transparency, relationships, adapting, growing, and taking risks. Andrew's advice will definitely resonate with all leaders. So here's your 30 second warning, be sure to grab a pen and paper as you'll likely be jotting down some great tips today. Okay, let's get to it. Welcome, Andrew to Healthcare Changemakers. How's your day going so far?

Andrew Williams: Day has been great so far, Philip. It's beautiful and sunny outside my office and looks like spring is trying to catch hold, so a great time of the year.

Philip De Souza: Well, glad to have you on. So before we get to the hard-hitting questions, Andrew, I thought I'd start off by asking what's your favorite TV show right now or a book you're reading?

Andrew Williams: Well, I have become hooked on the miniseries Reacher.

Philip De Souza: Yes, I love it.

Andrew Williams: The third season is just dropping now, so that is taking up my time on TV. Although for those who know me well, they would know I would be not truthful if I didn't say that Saturday mornings you can probably find me watching a Hallmark movie.

Philip De Souza: Aww.

Andrew Williams: Yeah, so I have both ends of the spectrum apparently when it comes to-

Philip De Souza: That's very good.

Andrew Williams: TV interests, yeah.

Philip De Souza: Eclectic taste and fun. I don't know if we started season three yet, but as I was watching the beginning of season three, I was telling Catherine our CEO, about I noticed it's definitely filmed in St. John's in Newfoundland. A few of the episodes I can see from the background of Water Street, and that was a fun fact.

Andrew Williams: No, and it's really interesting when you watch a lot of these series and Hallmark is good that way too, how much of the production is in Canada. It's great. It's nice to see. We always have to stay and watch the credits at the end-

Philip De Souza: That's right.

Andrew Williams: See where the filming took place, yeah.

Philip De Souza: No, it's very good to be proud of our Canadian spots in a variety of shows and TVs and movies, yes. And I guess the next question is what was your first job ever, you very first job?

Andrew Williams: My very first job. So we were living in Heart's Desire, which was just outside of Ottawa and I delivered newspapers, and so I probably would've been 11 or 12 when I started that. My first job where I actually had a paycheck was at a store called The Foot Locker.

Philip De Souza: Oh yeah.

Andrew Williams: Yeah. And I made 2.65 an hour, which somewhat dates me to your listeners, but there you go.

Philip De Souza: No, all the listeners, they all relate. Don't worry. Okay, good. We got some good questions out of the way. So for those who don't know you, can you share a bit about Huron Perth Healthcare Alliance and its mission, I guess including how partnership and collaboration plays a big role for you and your team?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, sure. So I work with an organization called the Huron Perth Healthcare Alliance, and we formed in 2003 and we include four hospitals, Clinton Public Hospital, St. Marys Memorial Hospital, Seaforth Community Hospital, and Stratford General Hospital. When we came together, we were actually the first voluntary alliance in Canada where the boards decided to walk away from their own governance and create one new board, go to one fully integrated staff, fully integrated medical staff. 

And a big part of that was a very strong belief that we're stronger together. And so when we started to really think about the HPHA as we call it, and kind of the marker we wanted to put in the sand, our vision is innovating for exceptional health.

And I think it really speaks to where we see healthcare today as the role that it plays in not only the work that we do in the hospital sector, but also the broader health and wellness of the community. So as the organization has evolved, we're big on collaboration. 

We're very focused on what we call our guiding principles of people, partnership, and performance and make sure that every year, in addition to providing great care in the moment across our four sites, we're trying to push the envelope in those three areas from a stretch goal perspective. But as I said, we've been in place, this is our 22nd year as an organization and I've had the privilege to be the CEO for that entire time.

Philip De Souza: It's amazing. As you described how everything came together and you built that foundation. I guess something that comes to mind and many leaders listening is how did you, and we often hear about how change management's so hard and bringing people together, all that jazz. Is there a piece of advice or an aha moment or a learning from when the team, like you said, had that to build that voluntary alliance and the first one in Canada is amazing too. Was there something that helped drive that momentum?

Andrew Williams: That's a really great question, and I think healthcare is important to everybody, and certainly in smaller communities it's very visible and people very passionate about it. They don't want to lose control, they want to make sure they can influence the decisions. I think the key to me in the approach that we took was developing a level of trust where people may not be totally comfortable with losing a bit of control, but their view from a bigger picture point of view, because there was a high level of trust, they knew that the decisions that would be made would be in the interests of the people that we represented. So I would say that the most important criteria for any successful partnership is a high level of trust where you're confident that the interests of all are equally viewed by the participants.

Philip De Souza: That's good. I love that advice about trust and it's very important. It's a good segue to my next question about, I was going to congratulate you on the completion of the cancer and medical care clinic and pharmacy is Stratford General Hospital, and so it obviously involves partners and people and getting things done and making an impact. What does this new clinic mean in terms of advancing patient care?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, it was a great opening a couple of weeks ago, and we have a chemo clinic that is a satellite with London Health Science Centre. So again, the partnership piece, and we've had it located here for a long time. The space that it was in was really shoehorned into our 1953 vintage hospital. So it wasn't ideal for the environment that we really wanted to promote. And so we went to our foundation and really asked and said, "Hey, we'd love you to support this." And when I look at the project where it's today, we're actually treating patients today, it's fully operational. It started a couple of weeks ago. What it really reinforced for me, two things. First of all, facilities and contemporary facilities have a really positive impact on the quality of care you're able to provide both through the lens of the patient and the staff members. So having new facilities is great that way.

Equally importantly though, these sorts of developments remind me how key the relationships between hospitals and their communities are. We would not have been able to do this had the community not stepped forward and donated their hard-earned money towards this project. So it's fantastic for care. It means an awful lot to obviously the patients who are receiving care now, those who will need to access the unit moving forward. But it just for me is a really good reminder about how important good strong community relations are. Good awareness of the importance of healthcare is to those who we serve.

Philip De Souza: I'll tap into, I guess you and your team's expertise on how do you tap into that community support? Is there something you, obviously, you mentioned it's now trust, so you definitely have garnered the trust of a community, but are there any other injects you do to meet with committee members or get their feedback on whatever the initiative, et cetera?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, I mean, obviously trust is a big part of it. And as you would expect over the years as our organization has changed, we've had lots of opportunity to engage with our communities, with our municipal partners. And I think the key for me is being visible, being transparent, being accessible, but also pushing that envelope, because one of the worst things that we can do, 

I think in healthcare is not change. Change can be very challenging on a whole bunch of different levels. So if you have good relationships and you are visible, you communicate well, you make sure the information that people need to perhaps understand, they may not agree, but understand why you're making the decisions that you are, I think that carries the day at the end of it.
But as your listeners will know, it's a very challenging space to be in when you're trying to look at new models of care, new approaches to delivery, changes in services, a lot of things, a lot of moving parts that will engage people. And everybody's got an opinion on healthcare, which is great in a lot of ways, but you have to make sure that you are very clear with what you're doing, why you're doing it, be open to feedback and input. We're very lucky to have an outstanding local board that has very passionate individuals from across our four communities and others who step forward in our foundations, for example, who can make sure that they're advocating with their peers and their colleagues around the work that we're doing and why we're doing it.

Philip De Souza: I love the fact that you mentioned that not changing can be a problem too. And you totally were upfront by saying change can be a challenge. I'm glad you said that because people often think, "Oh, just keep doing the same, if it's not broken." And you're pushing boundaries and making that change happen. And I think that's one of the reasons why we wanted to have you on this show.

Andrew Williams: Well, one of the things that I think it's also important to remember, we've all heard the saying, definition of insanity is do the same thing the same way and expect a different outcome. But by not, there's no such thing as not changing. You either proactively change and go a certain direction or you fall behind because every day that you're not adapting yourself or growing yourself or focusing on where's the organization going, you are slipping a little bit behind. So as hard as sometimes it is to stand up and say, we need to go a different direction, the result of not doing that five, 10 years down the road to me is worse. So it's a catch 22, but there's no such thing as not changing. The question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to do it proactively and positively or reactively and often negatively?

Philip De Souza: That's amazing advice. And speaking of that kind of diversity of thought, your personal 30 plus years of experience in healthcare leadership includes anywhere from teaching and research hospitals to the community sector to private clinics. So what advice would you give to healthcare leaders listening now on being exactly what you just said, being adaptive to change and being a strong leader regardless of where your setting is or who you're leading?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, it's a really great question. And as I said earlier, it's a privilege to work in the healthcare space. And I always believe that with that privilege comes an accountability to make a difference. And so when I'm talking to other leaders in the system or new leaders or people who are thinking of getting into leadership, the first thing I will say is, you got to love what you do. You have to really enjoy the role. There's going to be days like in any job where it's very challenging, very frustrating, but overall you have to have a positive attitude, positive outlook, you have to enjoy it. I had a great bit of advice once from one of my mentors and she said to me, "Bloom where you're planted."

Philip De Souza: Oh, that's nice.

Andrew Williams: In other words, really make sure that you're focusing all your energy and effort and doing the absolute best you can in whatever role you're in. And I know a lot of people who are on a career track and they're thinking, "Okay, what's my next move? And where am I going to be five or 10 years from now?" And what I'll say to them is that the most important thing you can do to have a successful career track is excel in the role you're in in the moment and develop yourself. Make sure that you are focusing on what I believe to be the really important attributes for leadership, being accountable for your actions, making sure your actions are founded in integrity, and make sure that you are very attuned to those that you represent.

Because ultimately, if you're a leader in any organization and we're seeing why leadership matters right now south of us, you're impacting the lives of those you represent. And you have got to make sure that when you're making decisions, that lens has to be brought to the table so that you make the right decisions not only for the organizations that you represent, but the people that you represent, which is even more important. But again, the advice that I give is really, enjoy what you do. Focus on developing yourself, those around you, and make sure that as you plan your career, you're willing to go different directions because it can take you. And I've been very fortunate in my career to go in different ways than maybe I thought initially, but it all was really focused on enjoying and valuing the work that you do.

Philip De Souza: Oh my gosh, you have so much good advice. My pen is running out of ink, because you've given me so much good advice. I could hear the passion in your voice as well, Andrew. So speaking the years of healthcare leadership, I guess, and hearing your passion in your voice and joy for what you do, are there one or two proud moments that stick out in your mind that you've carried with you?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, I've been around a long time, so I'm old, which is-

Philip De Souza: You're not old.

Andrew Williams: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. But I suppose the advantage of this being on audio is it's not quite as evident perhaps about how old I am, but there you are. I think, I mean, first of all, I would be remiss if I didn't say that what I'm most proud of is the fantastic relationships that I've had, the privilege of developing and growing and sustaining throughout my career. I mean, if healthcare is nothing, it's people looking after people, it's people supporting people. And so I look at that, but from a tangible point of view, I would kind of be remiss, I don't like focusing on the pandemic, obviously, but this is a five-year anniversary of COVID, and I could not have been more proud about how our organization, our community, our partners in the system stepped up and responded to what was a very devastating reality. And we learned a lot. And we grew, I think as individuals, we grew as an organization and we grew from a community point of view because of how we approached it. So very, very proud of that.

The key to any of these sorts of situations is what do you learn from it and how do you grow? And I think we need to do better perhaps in learning from our experiences. And the other area that if I, I sort of reflected on this question, we talked a bit about the HPHA right at the beginning. I'm really proud about how the organization has evolved. I mean, hospitals in smaller communities are very visible. As I said earlier, everybody has opinions on them. The way we've been able to grow and manage the organization, I think and take leadership positions around integrating services, working collectively, I'm really very proud of how that has evolved. It hasn't been without its challenges obviously, but the fact that we're 22 years into this relationship and we're continuing to focus on moving forward with innovative ideas for change, I'm very proud of that and the momentum that is still there.

Philip De Souza: And speaking as you as a strong advocate, when you speak about the work you're doing right now in the past few years, you are a strong advocate for integrating services around the unique needs of the population. So I guess for listeners, if you could paint a picture what this means and what does it look like to you?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, I'm a huge, those who know me know that I'm a strong proponent of integration and working together. There's a lot of different organizations in the healthcare space, but we all support the same population. And I think we all have a role obviously in that support, but the more we can work together, the better it's going to be for those that we serve. I've had the opportunity to survey with Accreditation Canada for about 25 years. So I've been all across the country and internationally and had a chance to learn a bit about systems and governance and things like that outside of Ontario. And Ontario is the only province in Canada that still has independent local governance. And personally, I think that's great. I mean, every province has its strengths in how it approaches things. I happen to the way things work in Ontario, but it only works, again, in my opinion, if the local governance players are equally focused on their own organization and also the communities that they represent.

So you have to really wear two hats. And so we've really tried to push that as an organization where we say at our board, we're accountable for the health of the hospitals, but we're also accountable for the health of the population in general. And so we need to work closely with our partners. So one of the things that we did last year, we actually went through Accreditation as a partnership through our Ontario health team where we had 10 separately governed organizations under one single umbrella from an 

Accreditation perspective. And we were using Accreditation to see if we could integrate, if we could standardize policies, if we could benefit from each other's expertise in ways that we may not have thought about absent applying nationally and internationally vetted standards to what we do.
So we put a lot of emphasis on it. And in hospitals today, any hospital in the country, we're doing a lot of things for people who would be better served elsewhere. And there's lots of reasons why they're not right now, but I think we have to have a different focus on the role of integrated systems, the role of the accountability we have as individual organizations in that and really push that envelope a bit more because I think it's one of the best ways we can bring more value, not only to those we serve, but also to the system and to policymakers and to funders.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned boards and you specifically mentioned your board and make a shout-out, and I'll be asking you a question later on about your personal experience as you sat on a number of boards as well, but I guess more because of all the leaders listening here on this podcast all likely have boards. And so I guess what you talked about of equipping the boards and making sure there's open and transparent communication, is there any advice you would give to leaders listening on how to ensure that you have an engaged board? Because it sounds like you do, and I think that's because I think sounds to me that it's the partnership between you and the board, not just one person or one individual or one side. It sounds like it's a harmonious engagement of people coming together to make change happen, to put the community first. So I guess any advice we'd have for leaders listening on how to create that space for positive engagement with the board?

Andrew Williams: Well, the relationship between a CEO and her/his board is one of the most important ones, if not the most important relationship that you have. And I think, again, it goes back to I'm pretty simple in how I view things, it goes back to trust and relationships and setting a tone, being accountable. One of the things when we look at, and each board's a bit different and each system is a bit different, but everybody who is interested in joining the HPHA from a governance point of view, and I could not be more fortunate with the board that I have and the boards I've had the opportunity to work with over the years, but people coming in are coming in in knowing that this organization is focused equally on internally what it does, but also externally, how it interacts with the broader community. So we're bringing in and attracting people who have that multi sort of faceted focus on what they can bring to the table.

So they're not only looking out for the interests of the hospital or the health of the HPHA, they know they have a broader role to play in the health of the community. And so we're very fortunate that way. We also try hard, and in Ontario we have what are called Ontario health teams. We try to make sure we're very visible at all those tables, making sure that our views are heard and that we're hearing the views of others because both inform the decisions that we make. But I think part of it is just being clear on what your expectations are as an organization, what our expectations are on us as individuals on the board.

I sit on the board as well, although I'm ex officio, so I don't have the opportunity to vote, but we still have to have the same mindset of pushing each other individually, developing each other. We talk a lot about growth and development of leaders and staff and team members. That same lens has to be applied to board where we have to make sure board members have the supports that they need, because governing and healthcare, it's a bit different than I think in a lot of ways to other governance structures, because it's so visible and it's so connected from a provincial and a political perspective that the lens and the skills that you develop are maybe not quite what you're used to if you're coming in from the private sector.

And both are equally important and good, but it's a bit of a different environment. So when I talk to new board members who've joined and they've come in, they've got a lot of private sector experience, there's a significant learning curve. So making sure that we provide those supports and development opportunities. And one of the best organizations in helping in that space is the Ontario Hospital Association. So we try to make sure that we make available to our board members, education opportunities that support them from their growth point of view, but also help the organization as it's moving forward.

Philip De Souza: Glad you mentioned that about the growth and development, because it affects everybody no matter where you sit in the organization. And I'm glad you also gave a nice shout out to our friends at the OHA as well. It was recently announced that Huron Perth has established an environment stewardship committee. So taking your focus on the environment a step further, so can you share more about this committee and why this focus is so crucial to you and the team?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, it really ties into what we've talked about throughout this chat around change and innovation and maybe looking at things differently. And as an organization over the last few years, we've really started to talk more and more about the role that we can play from a social accountability perspective. And again, it ties back into the, are you looking inward or are you looking outward? And I think we as an organization have again, recalibrated and recalibrated around a social accountability focus, around a digital innovation focus, and around a transformation focus. And part of the social accountability is very much how you engage with the environment. And so one of the first things that we did was we established an environmental stewardship committee, and we brought team members from across the organization together to really talk about what role does the hospital play in making a positive contribution to the environment both internally and externally.

And hospitals do have a significant carbon footprint as one example internationally. And so we'll often say, "Well, what can we do? We're such a small organization." But small steps taken multiple times take you a long way. So we are really trying to make sure, and we have a lot of rate programs that we've had in place for years around how we engage with the environment, whether it's purchasing policies when we build, the infrastructure that we put in place, how we approach our sites just in general. But this has sort of taken it one step further where we're engaging our staff in a broader way, but it speaks to our social accountability focus.

And I think hospitals have a wonderful opportunity to influence this space. I mean, one of the things that I would've added if you had asked me for more things that I'm proud of, over 20 years ago, we entered into a partnership with Shelterlink Youth Services. And so we have repurposed space on our Stratford site where Shelterlink offers temporary housing to youth who are homeless. 

And I mean, it's one of the areas where people will think, "Well, why are hospitals involved in housing?"
Well, the healthier population is, the healthier the hospital is, and one of the best ways to have a healthy population is to make sure that you are socially aware, that you're socially accountable, that you're advancing the social determinants of health and contributing to them in a positive way. And so we're trying to do that in a more visible way now. I think we've been doing it for a long, long time, but perhaps not with the visible markers. And we're trying to do that more and more today.

Philip De Souza: Oh, that's fantastic. I'm so glad you mentioned that and you added that in. And I remembered my other question about boards. We at HIROC know you're a board member that you mentioned at the Ontario Hospital Association as well as most recently, you've also joined the Board of Healthcare Collaborative Benefits, CO. So what is it about these organizations' mission that resonates with you and your work and also maybe adding that point now for you personally, why is giving back through governance important to you?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, this is a great question. And as I said earlier, with the privilege of being in the sector comes an accountability I think, to give back. And one of the ways that I've been fortunate to be able to do that is through boards. And I've been on the Ontario Hospital Association Board, this is my fifth year, and it's a remarkably dynamic group of individuals who work with an association that is second to none in my view when it comes to representing the sector and having the ability to inform the direction of health and wellness in this province in this country. And so I think it's important to try and get your voices heard either directly or indirectly in groups like that. The Healthcare Collaborative Benefit board, that's brand new as your listeners may or may not be aware. And it has stemmed from an initiative to share benefits for hospitals and others across the province.

And going back to the focus on partnerships and system thinking and integration, to me, it's a wonderful example of coming together through maybe a different lens than we have in the past, giving up maybe local control over our benefit programs, which is a hugely important program for all of us, for our team, and recognizing that if we work collectively together, we can either enhance benefits or impact costs, either saving or reducing increases. So I think it's an innovative program that has a lot of benefit for our team members right across the board. And so it's a good example of if you work together collectively, you're stronger. And that's a big focus of mine. And certainly the Healthcare Collaborative Benefits group is focused on that. And the OHA board and the OHA itself just sets a tone and a bar that is really high in those spaces. And something that I'm very proud to be associated with.

Philip De Souza: Only because obviously I met you through our CEO Catherine Gaulton, and when she speaks of you, she speaks very highly of how connected you are, Andrew, and how you're at many tables, and how have, she said you have the pulse of what's happening, what's in the system, what you're hearing, good and bad. And so I guess my question for you is taking all that in, and I have personally seen it because I've been at a variety of events where you've been at, where you've had a crowd of people around you, which that's a positive thing to see because that means people want to talk to you and they want to take you and they want to get your feedback.

How do you ensure, because when you're at so many different tables and you're hearing so many different things, and how do you, I guess, prioritize, and I guess I don't want to say pinpoint, but ensure that what you believe in, what your community believes in, your values, all that is conveyed out to ensure that, like you said, that more connection happens, that more partnership is seen in the system and that we're not siloed. Is there something you personally think about as you talk to all these different folks and community and government and associations and people like HIROC too? Is there something you personally do to say, "Here's how I'm going to enter this room today." Or here's how, "What going to focus on in this meeting as a leader?"

Andrew Williams: Yeah. Well, if there's any Shrek fans listening, you may remember when the Princess first met Donkey and she says to Shrek, "Oh my God, your donkey can talk." And Shrek says, "Yeah, shutting him up's the problem." So yeah, no, I love the fact that I have the opportunity to engage with lots of people, and I think it's a role of leadership. I mean, if you're not aware of the environment around you, it's kind of hard to make the right decisions for the organization that you represent. And I think when I survey, I mentioned I've been across the country and I, first thing I say when I meet with boards at the beginning of the survey is there's not a single organization that I've been into that cannot learn from every other organization I've been into. In other words, everybody has value to bring to a conversation. And I think the key is as we approach things, issues and development, we have to have that recognition. We've got to recognize that every conversation is a good one and every conversation we learn.

And I think if you don't put yourself out there and if you're not trying to understand and appreciate the views and vision of others, you really don't make the best local decisions. And I'm very lucky that my board supports that because they recognize that as an organization, the HPHA is stronger when not just me. A lot of our team members are out in different ways working with their peers and partners across the system, but I think it makes us all stronger if we're more aware of what goes on. And you really realize when you go across and talk to people, that we have way more similarities and differences. And I think learning from our partners is one of the best things we can do for our organizations.

Hey, it's Abi here. You know me from HIROC's Healthcare Changemakers podcast. I'm so excited to tell you all about a new show we're working on this year. I'll be co-hosting Share, Scale, Repeat alongside Trevor Hall. You know him as HIROC Vice President of Healthcare Safety and Risk Management. Trevor, maybe you can give our listeners a bit of a teaser.

Absolutely. Share, Scale, Repeat is a podcast about how even the smallest idea can spark big change. It's about discovery, understanding and exploring complex topics that we don't always talk about in healthcare. It's about sharing and scaling knowledge and experiences, what may work, and importantly, lessons in trying.

Trevor and his team hear so many amazing ideas through HIROC Safety Grants Program. So every episode will be sitting down with an expert to understand a complex risk issue, and most importantly, explore ways we are trying to reduce this risk.

That's right, Abi. What's so cool about some of these projects we've helped support and fund over the years is that many of them can be scaled at organizations right across the country. We just need to get the word out. Ultimately, it's about partnering to create the safest healthcare systems.

We'll be bringing the first episode to you wherever you get your podcast this spring. So for now, follow, Share, Scale, Repeat, so you'll be ready when we drop the episode. Thanks for listening.

Philip De Souza: I going to ask you a few questions and you can answer them with a one word answer or however long you want to speak about it. But the first question is, when you've had a hard day at work, what boosts your mood?

Andrew Williams: Well, if I'm really lucky, the Ottawa Senators are playing Maple Leafs and they beat them that night, that really helps. But no, I would say family and specifically Amara. So Amara is my little granddaughter. I highly recommend grandchildren to anybody who's thinking about it, I should tell you that right now. But you need to have a lot of things in your life. And having a young granddaughter is wonderful for perspective. And when you're having a bad day, I think it's important to maintain perspective. And I talk to our team when I meet new kids, when we have orientation, I always say to them and remind them, "No matter how bad your day may be, it's not as bad as most of the people who are coming into our organizations for care." And so perspective is a wonderful thing, I think, to boost your mood. And I try and focus hard on that, but as I said, having a granddaughter is a wonderful way to do that.

Philip De Souza: Oh, that's sweet. And keeping with family, I guess, what's the biggest thing you've learned from your parents or someone who helped shape you as you were on your journey in life?

Andrew Williams: Sure. Well, I think I was probably, when I was younger, I was like every kid. I didn't think my parents really knew anything about anything at all. But I look back, the thing that I learned from them, a lot of things, but the one that I'll just share here is importance of taking risks. And at the time, I didn't really appreciate it, because I was only five years old, but we were in England. We lived in England, and my parents decided that they were going to move to Canada. So they left their entire safety network, they left their family, they took two young kids, moved to Ottawa. On week three, my dad slipped and snapped his leg in half and was in hospital for...

Anyway, but I look back on that now and I realize how hard that must have been for them, but they did it because they felt it was the right thing to do. And I look at my career and Danielle and myself, Danielle is my wife. We were in Ottawa in 1991, and a job came up in Stratford. And not to be dismissive in any way, but I'd never heard of Stratford in 1991, but we thought it was a good opportunity. So applied for the job, was fortunate enough to get it. Danielle had to quit her job, and we moved to a community that we didn't know anybody, best decision we ever made, but it was about taking risks. And I think I learned that from my parents, that sometimes you've got to be willing to get out of your comfort zone to make a difference or make a change. And that's what they taught me, and it certainly played out in my life.

Philip De Souza: Wow, that's great advice. Okay, now you have to finish this sentence. If I wasn't in healthcare, I'd be doing...

Andrew Williams: I would be on a big game charter boat fishing in the Caribbean. That's what I would do.

Philip De Souza: Wow.

Andrew Williams: One of my joys, I love fishing. Now, I recognize that what you watch on a fishing show and what's actually reality are two very different things. So I might not have it as a long-term, but that's certainly something that would be right at the top of my list.

Philip De Souza: No, it's a good thing. And before we went live listeners, Andrew was just telling me about how he went ice fishing yesterday and had a great day out in the sun too. Who is a living leader you most admire?

Andrew Williams: This was a really interesting question because I would've answered it differently two months ago than I'm answering it today. It's kind of odd, right?

Philip De Souza: Right.

Andrew Williams: Yeah. I'm going to say, and there's a lot of people I admire around the world, but I'm going to say Jean Chrétien. And the reason I say that is he is an individual who, he's been around a long time in the political space. He always sets a bar of integrity that I think is so important in leadership. I'm politically agnostic. I voted for all major parties provincially and federally over my voting life. So I say this not, because I'm a liberal, but I just really appreciate the perspective. And if you listen to him on the weekend at 91 when he was at the liberal convention, when Mark Carney was tapped to replace Prime Minister Trudeau, his talk again was very inspiring, very poignant, and a really good reminder of the important role we as individuals play play, not only in our own world, in our own space, but more broadly on behalf of the country that we have the privilege of living in.

Philip De Souza: Absolutely. It was very clear, transparent communication, easy to digest message. I absolutely agree.

Andrew Williams: Yeah.

Philip De Souza: What's one meal, this is very different, what's one meal you could eat for a week straight and not get sick of, Andrew?

Andrew Williams: Well, I'm a guy, so I can eat most food for a week straight and not get sick of it. But if I had to pick, I actually really love, I love Chinese food, and one of the things that I used to do if I was home alone, I would buy enough Chinese food takeout for a whole week. So I've done it and it works out really, really well. So I would say that or close second, spaghetti.

Philip De Souza: Yeah, no, Chinese. I love it. Those are good ones. And only because I wasn't going to, I just thought about this question now only because again, I hear the passion in your voice of the impact you want to make. And so I was reading on the weekend about how people who hear the word no, so in their career or whatever, it could have been something as simple as like, "Oh, no, you can't do that." Or, "No, this job's not for you." Or whatever the case may be, it could be any situation. And I'm sure as a leader, you've probably heard the word no from somebody or somewhere. What did you do with that no? Did you say, "Okay." Shrug your shoulders? Or did you say to yourself whatever that no, you heard that really rallied your own personal being to be like, "You know what? I'm going to make an impact here and I'm going to make a difference." And I guess my question is, have you ever heard no and that particular no really fired you up to make change in your career?

Andrew Williams: Yeah, that's a great question. I look at it maybe instead of the word, no, I might say adversity, because we all face adversity. And I think one of the defining attributes of the best leaders are when they're faced with adversity, they turn it into as much of a positive as they can. And we'll go right back to COVID, we talked about that earlier. A lot of people said, "Okay, this is a really crappy reality we've been faced with. What are we going to do to get through it in as positive a way as we can?" So I think when the word no comes up. And if I'm talking to people, and I talk to a lot of people who have talked to me for a career advice, and they may apply for a job and they may not get the job that they wanted, it's, how do you learn from the situation that you're in? And we've all seen people that get angry if things don't work out, they check out if things don't work out.
And I think the ones who ultimately succeed are the ones who take no as an opportunity to learn and to the next time, come at things a little bit differently perhaps. Because your career is, for the most part, an evolution. And I think how you respond and react to situations is important, and constant learning is key. We talk a lot about mentoring and being a mentee, and I obviously have the privilege of having people who look to me as a mentor, but I always say to them, I actually am learning from you equally in this conversation. So it's always having that mindset that regardless of how a specific situation may end up, you're learning from it and you're pulling the good from it, and you're trying to improve yourself in whatever way the situation might point to.

Philip De Souza: Yeah. I'm so happy I asked that question because I feel like we ended off our conversation on an amazing note, and I think that as you were talking more and more, I was like, you know what? I'm going to make sure that we somehow get this particular episode into the classrooms of MBA programs across the country, because you gave some really good advice, Andrew. Thank you so much.

Andrew Williams: Well, you're too kind. Just always remember, too, some of the best learnings I've ever had were from bad situations, so this could have both effects on people. Yeah.

Philip De Souza: No, no.

Andrew Williams: Oh God, don't do that. Yeah.

Philip De Souza: No, no, this is all positive and I'm so glad that Catherine tapped you on the shoulder to come on the show. So with that said, thank you so much, Andrew, for chatting with us, taking time out of your really busy day. We know we at HIROC and all our listeners really appreciate that.

Andrew Williams: Well, and thank you to you and the HIROC team. We've had a longstanding relationship with you and great organization, set a really high bar in a lot of different ways, and I very much value that. Thank you.

Philip De Souza: Thank you.

Thank you for listening. You can hear more episodes of Healthcare Changemakers on our website, hiroc.com And on your favorite podcasting apps. If you like what you hear, please rate us or post a review. Healthcare Changemakers is recorded by HIROC's Communications and Marketing Team and produced by Podfly Productions. Follow us on Twitter at @HIROCGROUP or email us at [email protected]. We'd love to hear from you.